F1 » Ickx: Rosberg Schumacher's biggest enemy in F1 2010

Contrary to the popular school of thought, it could well be returning F1 legend Michael Schumacher who has difficulty in keeping up with Mercedes Grand Prix team-mate Nico Rosberg in F1 2010, argues Le Mans hero Jacky Ickx

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Alan D - Unregistered

January 25, 2010 11:16 AM

Johnson: "All the other ICE prototypes didnt work!"

So clearly you do deny historical facts about Lenoir's gas fuelled internal combustion engine, and also the historical facts about his 6 mile trips around Paris using a liquid hydrocarbon fuelled internal combustion engines, and I suppose you think the articles in Le Monde are a fake, designed to discredit Benz.

Which do I believe more? The newspapers which were printed at the time, or the people who incestuously copy "facts" from each other on the internet and claim it must be true because so many websites say it is so?


January 25, 2010 11:25 AM

alan, i said before, i was banging my head against a brick wall, with this poster. he must be wetting himself today, over the unveiling of merc new livery! it is all very well having a favoured team, but to have an obsession to the point of paranoia is downright ridiculous! i think his reference to top gear, was when the team went to find a car with the accepted normal layout of gearstick, pedals etc. and found that a cadillac was the first to standardise the modern layout. NOTHING to do with first car! he also claimed merc invented the seatbelt, abs etc. all hogwash!


January 25, 2010 11:32 AM


How long did it take him to complete those 6 miles?
How many running repairs were done during said 6 miles?

From my searching Benz was the first working prototype of the modern automobile. Every single one comes back the same.

That yes there were other wheeled vehicles at the time, But none could be called automobiles because they were so unreliable they could barely move a few meters without the operator having to climb off to do extensive adjustments before moving a few meters on and repeating the process!

As i posted before the wright brothers invented the aircraft because it flew. many others "flew" before them, but they were the ones who pioneered its use for practical means.


January 25, 2010 11:36 AM


How is it that all these patents were first held by Mercedes benz?

Now Iam not suggesting whoever patents anything first is the inventor. The crux of this old argument is that Mercedes as an automotive technology leader is unsurpassed. Say as you wish but I will not Change your mind and you will most certainly not change mine.

So before we bore everyone to tears, lets just forget it and argue matters F1?

will - Unregistered

January 25, 2010 11:41 AM

Alan, its quite an interesting discussion and I guess it all a case of evolution. Yes Lenoir was successful with his combustion engine - I am not sure the vehicle was a precursor to the modern motorcar but thats down to personal opinion. There was also another steam powered vehicle predating the Benz motor wagen which is worth a mention because it was very modern looking in its day, Mancelle, designed by Amedee Bollee


January 25, 2010 11:42 AM


As you are probably one of the most sensible posters,
I will say I dont wish to demean the frenchmans achievements, without them its quite possible Benz would not have been succesful.

But What benz did do without doubt, is design the worlds first car that could be used practically.
All articles agree on this.

I will not move your mind further and you will not mine. I suggest anything else on the matter be wasted effort?


January 25, 2010 11:49 AM

johnson. patents for ICE, etc were taken out by many, before benz, but patents have a finite life, and it only needs a slight mod to count as a new patent. i fully accept, and have said so many times, that benz built the first commercially viable automobile, that could be built for the public. but this whole argument started when you stated categorically, that benz built the FIRST motor car. most motor historians will accept that there were cars before benz, and even daimler acknowledge that. so what makes you different? you cannot rewrite history or fact!

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