F1 » Webber: IndyCar situation 'not right'


Mark Webber says IndyCar can learn from F1 after the death of Dan Wheldon

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Rob - Unregistered

October 20, 2011 7:46 PM

50 Cent - Good debate mate! I agree the kinetic energy involved in an oval crash is far higher than a typical F1 crash due to both the mass of the cars and the velocity at the point of impact. I think it is very difficult to compare which car is safer, as the types of accident that occur in each formula are different. The last time I saw an F1 car hit an object at speed while airborne was Reubens at Imola - even then he hit 'level'. I've seen far more of these types of crashes on ovals. That's why I agree that Indycar *racing* is more dangerous than F1 by its very nature. What should not be done to improve safety is take away the very soul of Indycar - track variety. It would be a far poorer series without ovals

fairlyoldguy - Unregistered

October 20, 2011 7:54 PM

droog- I must take exception to some things that you have said. In listing N.American road courses,you left out two of the best-Road Atlanta and Road America (Elkhart Lake-the American Spa.)Secondly,your notion that American racing is all about ovals and drag racing. Road racing in the US was minimal pre-war (That's WWII, kiddies) However, road racing boomed here in the Fifties, producing such drivers as Phil Hill, Carroll Shelby, Dan Gurney,Richie Ginther,Masten Gregory. My earliest race viewing was at the scruffy little Vineland, NJ track, where I saw Roger Penske, Mark Donohue, Peter Revson, et al. in their earliest races. It is unfortunate,from my point of view as a student of racing history, that NASCRAP has come to dominate the American media and public perception of motor sport. Even the lordly New York Times pays minimal attention to motorsport other than the "taxicabs", and its coverage of Dan Wheldon's fatal crash was the biggest coverage that it had given to Indy Car in ye

50 Cent - Unregistered

October 20, 2011 7:59 PM

Here is why I think Indy cars involved in the accident are not as "safe" as F1. Two concept Indy cars for 2012 have hit the Speedway. Let's take a look at the design as explained by Andrea Tose, who is the head of R&D for 2012 programme. "When there is open chassis competition it is usual to have a recess in this area which just carbon, but for us safety was the number one priority”. "The tub also features enlarged anti intrusion panel runs from the front bulkhead right to the engine bulkhead thus protecting the fuel cell. This is a substantial increase on the versions currently fitted to the cars.

Impact protection is also increased in other ways with the roll hoop conforming to the same crash test loadings as a current Formula 1 car, this represents a 40% increase over the current cars."

To me it tells me that the current F1 car is "superior" when looking at the crash test loads.

Rob - Unregistered

October 20, 2011 8:23 PM

50 Cent - Okay you got me - the current Indycar is not as safe as a current F1 car. Would a 40% increase in roll bar strength have prevented the tradegy? I'm not so sure, let's hope we never find out (e.g. with the new car). My original statement that Indycar is now stagnant, keeping that awful looking Dallara chassis for too many years is reflected in the facts you have presented. However, if Indycars were identical to F1 cars in safety performance, Indycar racing would still be more dangerous.

Droog

October 20, 2011 9:05 PM

@fairlyoldguy.
Dead on.
In a way you made my point for me. The root cause of the rise of NASCRAP is the almost total ignorance of history in the US/Canada nowadays. I'm almost as guilty, with my own ignorance of US road courses. All I know personally is Watkin's Glen, having seen a NASCAR "race" there a couple of years ago. I think that there were 15 safety car periods, that pesky right turn thing caught a lot of them out..
But I do remember Jim Clarke, and was pondering the lack of NA drivers in the premier series nowadays. None of the younger drivers is exposed to F1, F3, Formula Renault etc, and they simply don't know anything besides NASCAR and Indycar. And as I said, our day to day experience lets us relate better to NASCAR. Not an abundance of twisty bits on the majority of roads around major population centers, and on top of that the crap vehicles that people drive in NA don't encourage cutting the apex on what roads there are.
Cheers.

swingaxle8 - Unregistered

October 20, 2011 9:46 PM

i don't think the USGP is going to help F1 in America at all. Again people here in the states are brainwashed by the redneck racing known as NASCRAP. Left turn left turn. They throw the stupid competition caution flag which is a joke. It's all a staged even as far as I'm concerned. Whatever sponsor wants more exposure that day wins the race. Not too mention F1 actually is a skilled motor sport that requires a brain to comprehend fully and even compete in. This is something a lot of people here in the States lack. Lastly I really think Texas is the worst place to put an F1 race. There are far better markets for something like this. Texas is like getting deep into NASCRAP territory of the deep south. I made my point I think......mind you this is coming from an American. I live in Phoenix, AZ I'd love to see F1 come here to the old street circuit downtown. That was awesome.

johnnymat

October 20, 2011 10:03 PM

Wow , some of you folks are making some really dumbass comments about oval track racing and the safety of Indy Cars. I guarantee it wouldn't have made any difference what type of open-wheel car Dan was in. The result would have been the same. His death appears to have been caused by the catch fencing, not a failure of the car.

While I'm not a big fan of oval racing , I do watch some of them and the competition on the short ovals in particular,can be very exciting and intense.

I agree that NASCAR is very contrived, but isn't F1 also contrived with the DRS zones etc.?

As far as close competition in F1, the sight of Mr. Vettel heading off into the sunset , miles ahead of the others, doesn't strike me as particularly exciting.

renegade - Unregistered

October 20, 2011 10:10 PM

Not read every comment so sorry if there is a repeat.
There is a lot of talk on Will Power being saved by the concrete and the catch fence being the issue. The fact is that the way Dans car hit the 'barrier' was unfortunate and not survivable be it fence or concrete, neither absorb the shock well. A substance such as that that Perez hit in Monaco might have given a chance but obviously nobody can see through it so it would never be used. The sad fact is that barriers there to protect spectators are a danger to drivers.

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