F1 » Webber: It didn’t feel too different

Mark Webber insists that the revised Red Bull RB8 wasn't hugely different from the car used earlier in pre-season testing

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March 03, 2012 9:41 PM

Didnt feel too different to Mark Webber, but raised the eyebrows of quite a few observers. The only area of performance where there is still a tiny area for any innovation is in the overall aero effect, and only so because Newey is constantly ahead of the game!

Al Sim - Unregistered

March 03, 2012 10:06 PM

There is no doubt Newey is a brilliant designer yet last season he complained bitterly about other teams copying his ideas and only the year before he was one of the first to copy McClarens f duct when they realized it worked. Michael Schumacher won seven world titles in cars designed by someone other than Newey,
what I am trying to say is, there are other designers in F1 as good and in some cases better than Newey.


March 03, 2012 11:20 PM

Ferrari have abandoned their radical exhaust positioning system/use, could be they arrived at the same conclusions they arrived at years ago, when they found out that the sensitivity of exhaust blowing without having constant blowing (by off throttle engine mapping) negates any advantages the blowing gets, at that time (years ago) they came out with what was then known as the periscope exhaust.


March 04, 2012 12:48 AM

Victor, what teams lost by the banning of EBD plus off throttle engine mapping they will never regain whatever they will manage to blow, they have no chance of getting back anywhere near a 20 percent of what they had lost.
Interested F1 followers should make an afford to try understand the new for 2012 exhaust outlet position rules as otherwise it will be difficult if not confusing to understand what teams are doing/trying to achieve.

Phil - Unregistered

March 04, 2012 12:59 AM

I'm fed up with all this grey rules since 2009 the ones pushing the rules to the greyest area has won the titles. First it was about the drivers and then it was about the cars and since 2009 it's about cheating without cheating. If this start to happen in 2012 I'm off F1 and instead I will be watching Indycar.


March 04, 2012 1:22 AM

For the benefit of those that are interested in detail here are some.
The last 100mm section of the exhaust pipe (tail pipe) must be round/circular section of 75mm internal diameter, and with no internal vanes.
The tail pipe must be at an angle of between 10 and 30 degree from the reference place and 10 degree from the car centre line.
These tail pipes (the last 100mm) (qty 2) must be in a specific area on the car.
The exhaust tail pipe position can be anywhere inside an imaginary frame/box (one each side of the car) this frame/box is 700mm long and 350mm high.
Looking at these imaginary frame/boxes from the side of the car, they have to be 500mm from the rear axle centre line and 250mm above the reference plane, (which means the tail pipe max height will be/can be about the same as the rear tyre).
Looking at the imaginary frames/boxes (one each side of the car) from on top, they must be no less than 200mm and no more than 500mm from the centre line of the car.

Name - Unregistered

March 04, 2012 1:31 AM

I think he mistook his words as i believe he wanted to say it didn't feel too much different than LAST YEAR'S car. OMFG!! This car gonna pwn!


March 04, 2012 9:15 AM

phil. it is NOT cheating. it is just ingenuitive use of the rules. that is totallly different to cheating.

sunny. i am surprised at you saying that the ebd is banned! it is not banned, it is just made harder to achieve, and newey has found a way that certainly goes some way to continue to get a similar effect, WITHIN THE RULES. it is off throttle blowing that has been banned, together with a new location of exhaust outlet to try and ensure it doesnt happen.

but just like other spheres, such as computer virus, security etc, as soon as the powers that be bring out a system to prevent hacking etc, there are always those who are one step ahead and can find a way past any restrictions.

the only way to minimise the use of exhaust gasses, is to have them exit behind the rear wing.


March 04, 2012 10:39 AM

Richard, the blowing of the diffuser by exhaust gasses (EBD) and that includes the blowing of the floor and any part of the bodywork has been banned, this apart from the banning of the constant blowing of any of the above by the off throttle engine mapping. The FIA is enforcing two things to effect the above for 2012, the FIA is governing/mandating the design position of the exhaust tail pipe, The FIA effectively banned exotic engine maps by writing the software governing the engine electronics control unite. Newey has found nothing and will find nothing that can compensate for what he lost (his own words) with the exhaust tail pipes position as per the regulations, more so with the off throttle engine mapping banned, the thing that mattered most. The biggest loss is the off throttle engine mapping which allowed for near constant exhaust gasses. The exhaust blown diffuser is not a Newey invention, it has been as effective when Renault first tried it on their V6 turbo car, but of course

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