F1 » Murray Walker: Vettel can beat Schumi's records


Murray Walker thinks Sebastian Vettel could re-write the F1 record books and outdo Michael Schumacher

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Andrew - Unregistered

December 07, 2012 1:40 PM

The key is how long Newey will part with Vettel. Hamilton and Alonso are not really worse than Vettel, however they could not win a single title since 2007 and 2008. The car that you drive is that important. So Vettel needs to capitalize as many as he can while Newey is there.

This year was also not too amazing to me as it somehow proved again the car is way much more important than the driver in F1. Look at Hamilton next year with a less decent car, probably.

daniel p - Unregistered

December 07, 2012 2:54 PM

All very well JohnO but Webber would have been right up there if his car was reliable. In the last 5 races the Red Bull was streets above anything else, even if a switched on Hamilton did win in Austin

richard

December 07, 2012 3:50 PM

daniel.webbers car was reliable this year, vettels wasnt. but in a straight fight between the two equal bulls, seb has rarely, if ever, been beaten by webber. i think that they have done about 60 races in the same car. how often has webber beaten seb, when maladies have not affected seb?

Trouser snake - Unregistered

December 07, 2012 3:53 PM

For the 1000th GD time. The McLaren was far and away the superior car this year and Lewis and Jensen (with a lot of help from the team) wasted the opportunity!

Without the Mclaren and a little help from Timo Glock Hamilton would never have achieved what he has.

Without the Gazillion of Dollars Ferrari spent to try and make Alonso competitive this season (including scuttling his own teammate) he would never had the success he had as well.

Sound familiar? Its the same sort of bile that has been spewing all over this sight about Vettel and Newey all season.

paul joiner

December 07, 2012 4:31 PM

It has been said that the true measure of a man is how he handles defeat. I think it quite easy to sit in a dominant vehicle and rack up stats but harder to pursue challenges to raise a team, vehicle, to a competitive status. We see it in Moto GP where certain riders have stayed with a certain manufacturer to stay on top and everyone wants to be a winner and stay champion but how will history regard you? Tis better to risk for reward and possibly fall short and have the admiration and respect of competitors then to take the easy road to victories and lose that same respect to be regarded as a paper champion who was afraid of challenges. Step away from Neweys car and give yourself some challeges

JohnO - Unregistered

December 07, 2012 4:31 PM

"Webber would have been right up there if his car was reliable. In the last 5 races the Red Bull was streets above anything else"

The supposed "Newey magic" went into affect at Singapore. That's where Vettel started on his winning streak - four wins, a third and a second prior to Brazil. The thing is, Webber managed 11th, 9th, 2nd, 3rd, DNF and DNF in this same races. Reliability was not his problem, speed was. Yes, he crashed out of the AbD GP - but he started 2nd and slipped back to 10th before he crashed out, at the same time Seb went from the pit lane to podium.

If the car was even half as good as the Vettel bashers say, there should be a ton of RB 1-2's every year. Instead there was one in 2012 and three in 2011.

JohnO - Unregistered

December 07, 2012 5:03 PM

It's true that Vettel in 2011 racked up "Mansell in a FW14B" type numbers. But what is even more significant is that Webber did NOT look anything remotely like Patrese in a FW14BB. That fact tells anyone who cares to notice that it was not the car.

Alonso won back-to-back titles in 2005-06. Was that "the car"? Most people would say not, because if it WAS the car then you'd expect to see Fisichella beating Schumacher as well. You separate the car from the driver by looking at how both drivers do in it. Webber has just 3 wins and 3 second places in the last 39 races in that Newey car. That's a poor record. It's a very poor record.

I repeat - if and when the Red Bull's start to finish one-two, that will be the time to talk about how fantastic the cars are. It has to take something more than a driver you don't like winning the WDC to make his car something special.

JohnO - Unregistered

December 07, 2012 5:15 PM

"I think it quite easy to sit in a dominant vehicle and rack up stats but harder to pursue challenges to raise a team, vehicle, to a competitive status."


That's absurd. Typically drivers change teams in pursuit of a better car. Ayrton Senna jumped to Williams because he thought he had a better chance at a fourth title there, not because he wanted to raise them to competitive status. He jumped from Toleman to Lotus for a better car, and from Lotus to McLaren for the same reason. People keep making up these little "gotcha" rules for Vettel and not noticing that, if applied consistently, they are also attacking some legendary drivers.

sennaforever

December 07, 2012 6:51 PM

@ johnO,
you're making it sound like its all Seb Seb Seb and nothing at all to do with the Newey car or RBR, tbh I think you do Adrian Newey an injustice cos I think you'll find he's won MORE championships ( driver and constructor ) than ANYONE, and furthermore, its all about the team as well, Vettels driven quality races and I think he is a quality driver although I can't say I'm a particular fan, but he's had some luck along the way both good and bad, but don't forget he's also benefitted from some pretty slick TEAM tactics, IT'S THE WHOLE PACKAGE NOT JUST SEB SEB SEB

JohnO - Unregistered

December 07, 2012 7:33 PM

"its all about the team as well"

If you actually believed that, you'd change your name from "sennaforever" to "mclarenforever" or some such.

You haven't really responded to anything I've said. I never claimed that Vettel won while running around the track in his bare feet. Of course every driver - even Senna - needs or needed a car with at least adequate performance, and a good team as well. How did Senna get on in 1992, or in 1984? But the claims that there has been something unusually good and especially fast about the RB cars of the last few years are based on zero empirical facts. Those are the claims that I'm responding to - the ones that Vettel is sort of a modern version of Damon Hill, a decent but not great driver in a fabulous car. Such claims are patently false.


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