Polo, Your friend Whitmarsh may have called Vettel crash kid a while ago but he's not really crashed much since. On the other hand more recently the Australian Road Safety Minister called Lulu a d**khead and he continues to be one on a regular basis but I don't hear you quoting him!

apart from that, each year the red bull is different, so seb is in effect driving a different car each year. this year, he was not driving the best car, yet still drove it better than anyone else.

Richard, everybody drives a diff car each year and Ferdi or Lulu didn't get to drive any RB's. Seb arguably still had the best car this year, not a RB7 but Newey worked hard to get Seb extra downforce.
Look, the last great was Schu, so if Seb is gonna be a great than he needs to match or better his efforts as an example and you and I both know that is a massive mountain to climb. Seb is no where near being on the level Schu was in his day, I dont like him but god damn he put in countless drives, did incredible things on the track, came through the field too many times. I remember him passing 2 cars on 6 and 7 at Suzuka in 97 or 98..... epic move it was.
I wish you blokes would stop trying to lower the "great" level so you can put Seb in there. If he gets there he does, if he doesn't he does

cont - if he doesn't, he doesn't. The stakes and awesomeness to be a great have risen heaps because of the last two. I'm mean they are the two greatest drivers in the history of the sport. You don't just get given that honor, it must be proven in many diff ways.
Just give Seb time, not premature ejec...........
The guy might get there one day.
But seriously though, whats all this fascination about calling Seb a great with the best drivers in history???
Ferdi is arguably considered the best driver in F1 and nobody is talking about calling him a great so why try with Seb ??? Is this a fanboy joke that normal F1 fans don't get ??

matt. sometimes i wish that you would actuall take the time to read and inwardly digest what i say. i was not saying that seb was "great". in fact, i pointed out to uncle sam, that the term only is applied to someone who has retired from f1. there are some drivers who are now classed as reats, and in fact were quite obnoxious , but only got their deification due to being in the right car at the right time. and as you say , lulu etc were all in different cars each year, but they did not excel in them, so there is no need to insist that a driver has to change teams to be a great. i gave clark as one example. do you not classify him as a great? in 20 years time, posters like you and me will be reminiscing about the exploits of seb, just as we do now about schumi.
as for seb coming from the back? did you not see abu or brazil?
stats showed that he was the driver who overtook the MOST in the full season. not too bad, was it?

Richard - Who in their right mind wouldn't call Clark a great. He stayed with Lotus his whole career but didn't have the best car in all of those. He won races in dogs of cars and is known to be able to drive the wheels off dog cars where others struggled. He raced and won in other categories while in F1 aswell, like the Indy 500.
When he died he had the record for most poles and wins and STILL has the record for most Grand Chelems, which makes him the most dominating driver in history. 63 Belguim he won by nearly 5 mins, 67 Italy he was a lap down and still won. So yeah I put Clark on top step with Senna. So what if Seb pulled off 2 pretty good races, I'm still waiting for "epic" drives where he wins them and they go in the History books. Basically when you look at what the greatest drivers have done, it's hard to be impressed by just pretty good drives !!!
Seb still is no Schumi, not from 2 overdue races. I'm
not sure about the reminiscing bit, he's got alot to do and plenty of time

@Taipan
Although on paper Prost may seem "great", he was assisted by the FIA on far too many occasions to state unequivocally that all of his titles were earned on track and deserved. His relationship and personal influence over the then FIA president forever taint him, at least for me. Nevertheless the standard being applied by the majority here on Vettel, that to be a truly great driver one must realize a championship with a team using less than the best equipment, certainly does not apply to Prost.

Sam I'm guessing that you watched the Senna DVD and took it as factual rather than see the utter bias that spoiled it.

But I'll give you the chance to convince me, you Prost was assisted by the FiA on too many occasions, would you care to list the occasions?

@izybluffen
I am afraid if epic drives are what you long for, you may sadly never see another in your lifetime. The racing is more entertainment today than the pure sport of the past. The stewards would certainly have a safety car to tighten things up if anyone remotely threatened to spoil a race by lapping the entire field. Also in the races you are referring to, they would only have local yellows even if a driver was dead or their car was on fire in the middle of the track. I think we can agree that no one wants to revert to those deadly days. The only epic drives that the future may hold, are ones where teams gamble in changing weather like Brazil this year or Button's drive in Canada two years ago. I think you will agree that tire gambles are not truly equal to the great drives in the history of the sport.

matt. i did not say that clark wasnt a great, but i was using him as an example of a driver not switching teams, something you gave as a prerequisite for seb.
when clark won, he had by far and away, the best car. the lotus was years ahead of his time. and yes, he won the indy 500, in a LOTUS with mid engine. racing against front engined dirt track cars with an antiquated pushrod offy engine. and as for winning by 5 mins? why, that was not unusual in the 60s, due to very wide performance gaps. not denegrating what he is, but merely stating FACTS.

ps. put him up there with senna? no way, he is streets ahead of senna. i wouldnt use both names in the same sentence.

@Taipan
I stated my opinion. I am not debating it and nothing stated here would influence me to change my stance. And yes I did see that movie, but generally had the same opinion of Prost prior to viewing it. And I believe that Prost did benefit from his relationship with Balestre, even if you don't.