F1 » Mercedes: New engines won’t mean economy runs

Mercedes has provided a sneak preview of the new era of F1 due to be ushered in in 2014.

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Bryan G - Unregistered

January 14, 2013 2:56 PM

Richard - if you do a little research I think you will find that part of the turbo function is power recovery,not just providing compressed air.This is where much of the complexity appears.Using an exhaust turbine to provide power is not new - Wright turbo compound radial aircraft used the system also the Napier Nomad prototype engine - it recorded the best specific fuel consumption of any aircraft engine up to that time.


January 14, 2013 4:14 PM

bryan. i think that you may be confusing the issue. power recovery yes, but using exhaust gasses to drive a blower for intake. absolutely nothing to do with generating power for kers. that is provided by harnessing energy from braking.

and it is well known that using a turbo makes the engine more efficient, and efficiency means less fuel burnt, so of course fuel consumption is reduced.

one site is reporting (still to be verified) that fuel efficiecy with the turbo v6, will be two thirds of the present consumption.

Bryan G - Unregistered

January 14, 2013 4:29 PM

Richard - as I suggest do a little research regarding the new systems - this is why it is now named ERS - energy recovery system as opposed to KERS which was purely a kinetic energy recovery system which indeed used braking - hence Kinetic. The turbine of the turbo charger will be used under certain circumstances to drive the ERS generator - that is why the compressor on one of the engines is rumoured be at the front of the engine - the turbine by regulation must be at the rear - driven by a shaft through the v.


January 14, 2013 5:00 PM

In an earlier post on this subject I have tried to explain why the FIA had felt the urgent need to drastically change the engine formula for formula one racing, but still some on here falls head first into the FIA trap of “FI is going green with at least a thirty five percent economy in fuel consumed”,
The FIA ultra intense preoccupation (panic) at the time this new engine formula was conceived was solely aimed at eradicating the dependence on a handful of manufacturers that were able to and willing to produce an F1 engine as we know it than.


January 14, 2013 6:31 PM

Bryan G, you are in dire need to do some serious and solid research on the subject you embarked upon, but you will have to separate the weed from the chaff of the printed media that you read.
“The FIA rules, Pressure charging/turbo charging", by use of one single stage compressor, linked to one single stage exhaust turbine by a common shaft, parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of he car centreline, an electrical motor generator (MGUH) may be directly coupled to the same shaft.
If one looks carefully at the Mercedes turbo charger one can see the (MGUH) motor generator in between the compressor and exhaust turbines all on the same common shaft (and no shaft through the vee!)


January 14, 2013 7:02 PM

Richard, the new version of the KERS/ERS system will provide a boost to the engine by combining the recovery of the kinetic energy during braking (KERS) with the recovery of energy derived from the exhaust gases (ERS) (“MGUH” motor generator)driven by the exhaust turbine “see my other post to Bryan”.
From 60kw (80hp) of KERS to 120kw (160hp) of KERS and ERS combined, this boost of power is for a max of 33.3 seconds, but drivers will on average have 16.6seconds per lap to play with as against the 6.67 seconds they have a present.


January 14, 2013 7:07 PM

sunny. so are you saying that kers will no longer be used, but that a generator , like an alternator, can be driven from the turbo?

bryan , as far as i could decipher, was saying that one manufacturer, (not merc obviously) was going to put a generator at the front of the engine, driven from the shaft of the turbo. this does seem to be allowable under what you have advised.

but as cars already run alternators, does this mean that they will be running two alternators, one for ignition and one for battery charging?

it does seem a bit wasteful dropping kers after only a couple of seasons.


January 14, 2013 7:18 PM

Richard, on re reading my post I saw that I should have added that the (MGUH) motor generator in between the turbo turbines will only produce an electrical boost when the driver lifts off as otherwise it will rob the engine of some boost, same as with braking for KERS.

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