F1 » Mercedes: New engines won’t mean economy runs

Mercedes has provided a sneak preview of the new era of F1 due to be ushered in in 2014.

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Bryan G - Unregistered

January 14, 2013 8:40 PM

107SS209 - Perhaps Richard has now seen the light.It is difficult to get detailed info as to how the 3 different manufacturers are actually going to do the power recovery from the exhaust turbine - they are obviously keeping their cards close to their chests as there are several ways it can be done.It will be interesting to see if any of them use a purely mechanical system or as I suspect electro-mechanical. One problem that bothers me is the huge amount of energy the KERS system will store - how will it be dissipated in a crash?

Bryan G - Unregistered

January 14, 2013 8:55 PM

Looking at the Mercedes engine it strikes me that having what appears to be the generator between the exhaust turbine which will be glowing red hot and a relatively cool compressor will not be very conducive to reliability.It is Mercedes after all -they must know what they are doing.


January 14, 2013 9:18 PM

It is obvious and expected that there will be detail differences of KERS/ERS systems as used by three different engine manufacturers, but the following will be more or less common to all.
An MGUH (HEAT)/motor generator will be driven by the turbo charger shaft.
An MGUK (KINETIC) /motor generator will be driven by the (as at present) front of the crankshaft.
Only the MGUK (KINETIC) /motor generator will be putting/adding the additional power to the power train.
The MGUH (HEAT)/motor generator will harvest electrical power from the exhaust gases as well as giving a rotational boost to the turbo charger itself when need be.


January 14, 2013 9:23 PM

bryan, yes, i am beginning to see the light. it puzzled me, and two days ago, i asked if someone could explain what the difference was. still not quite sure how having what is in effect TWO recovery systems, can help. i also queried what the bulls would do, as they use mini kers batteries. presumably all cars will have to have larger kers batteries.

incidentally, williams had a problem with heat from their kers. it burnt sennas backside in a mid season race.


January 14, 2013 10:12 PM

I do not know by whom the turbo charger/MGUH Mercedes intends to use is manufactured but at Monza this year Magneti Marelli showed the same setup of a turbo charger with an MGUH/motor generator in between the turbines.
For a clear picture visit auto 123 com, f1 technique magneetti marelli uviels new hardware for 2014 rules.

Bryan G - Unregistered

January 14, 2013 11:45 PM

Found a very explanatory article titled Parisian Powerhouse in an online edition of Racecar News - October edition. It gives about the best description of how the systems will work I have come across.There will be so many variables to work with that it will be a nightmare - I think the powerplants will have to be set up for each circuit.
It is also mandatory that fuel flow cannot exceed 100Kg/Hr with a fuel load at start of 100Kg - I can see a lot of retirals with no fuel!


January 15, 2013 7:31 AM

I'm one of the purists that love that turbo power is coming back. The Merc guy saying there will be much more torque which will be great for lovers of oversteer (waiting to see how Newey will get around that one, as loop holes are running out for extra downforce)

@ Sunny - Interesting with the turbo in the Merc pic, it is a "one" piece (turbine & compressor together) like a normal turbo but with a big covered shaft area to run the ERS off, but ??? Isn't this type of turbo called "compounding" when you run extra driven devices off the shaft.

Extra ????
1- Obviously they show no headers/exhaust manifolds so one could suggest they will still run a big external wastegate ?
2- Will they run 1 intercooler in the air intake duct instead of 1 on 1 side or 2 on both, or will they try water to air and try and squeeze extra power that way regardless of weight ?
3- Will they allow extra boost to be run in Quali ?


January 16, 2013 5:36 AM

The way I see it (technically speaking) there will be no need for the governing body (FIA) to regulate turbocharger boost pressure as the level of boost will be strictly limited by the fuel flow/fuel injected.
The maximum power output from this 1.6l turbocharged engine (excluding KERS/ERS) will not excide 600hp, and that will be limited for the time it can be used during a race because of fuel restriction.
I also don't see the need for a waste gate as the MGUH (heat)/motor generator will control both over speeding as well spool up of the turbines shaft.

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