F1 » 'Raw' Webber considering quitting?


Mark Webber: I think it's very early days right now, it's very raw, obviously, and we need to work out how the team goes best forwards from here

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John - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 12:41 AM

"let's say decreasing fuel."

Fuel was decreasing in both cars. That would make both cars go faster. But for your theory yo be true you need to show that Webbers engine was "turned down" resulting in his going slower than Vettel.

"can you tell us where you got your fastest lap time statistics...because others on this forum have shown them to be demonstrably false."

Where specifically has anybody shown them to be demonstrably false? You mean the fool who provided the final lap lap times? Those are not fastest lap lap times.

Angelina - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 12:41 AM

"Still waiting for you to fulfill your obligation and provide sufficient warrant for your position. So far you have offered a big fat nothing, preferring to cast brickbats at the data I'm providing. You've offered nothing to support you position and you seem quite unaware that you need to."

No, I don't have a position. I fully accept that I cannot prove the engine mode with the current data. You seem to think you can, so I'd love to see this proof.

Angelina - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 12:42 AM

"You mean the fool who provided the final lap lap times? Those are not fastest lap lap times"

Yes but the final lap time he gave for Webber is faster than the fastest lap that you gave for Webber. Hence, your is definitely not the fastest lap!

Angelina - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 12:45 AM

Also F1 fanatic has a lap by lap graph of all drivers lap times. You might be interested in seeing that. It shows that befor the final pit stop, their times were well matched. After the final stop, Webber's lap times were ~2s slower than Vettels's

John - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 12:47 AM

"The legal burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the obligation resting on a party in a trial to produce the evidence"

I'm amused that you fancy yourself as the judge and me as the plaintiff in this little scenario.

All you're doing here is putting your fingers in your ears and chanting "I can't hear you". If you are bound and determined to ignore everything I say, tha'ts your problem.

Simo - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 12:47 AM

Angelina, here's some data

From the official FIA record of the race.

M Webber fastest lap 1:40:685
S Vettel fastest lap 1:40:446

Both on lap 45, prior to lap 45 (in and out laps excluded) they both had very similar times.

The overtake was on lap 46, after lap 46 vettel was consistently 1-2s quicker than Webber until lap 50.

This suggests to me at lap 50 Vettel finally turned his engine down. Of course I'm happy to say this is pure speculation based off the data available (including quotes from the drivers and team principles/designers).

Vettel is no doubt a very fast driver, but the look on his face post race suggests to me this was a very hollow victory for him, maybe he knew he wasn't racing on equal footing against his team mate, maybe he didn't.

Simo - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 12:51 AM

"I'm sure that in your own mind, you are a person of immense knowledge and learning. "

Pot, meet kettle...

You think 1:49 is faster than 1:43...

Angelina - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 12:55 AM

"Pure comedy gold."

No not really. I have made no statements about the drivers engine modes. You have. You declared the fact that Webber turned his engine down as "factually false". Can you not see that you have to be able to back up a statement like that? If you had phrased your statements differently (ie not as facts), it would have been fine. The fact is, they are not facts.

Gray - Unregistered

March 25, 2013 1:00 AM

SV is certainly cementing his place as the new Shumacher - completely self absorbed and willing to cheat to win. MW had 4 seconds up his sleave when the team said not to race - there is no way SV could have caught him if he had not trusted Vettel to obey team instructions. Red Bull need to think about their hero - he sure is fast on the track and just as fast to walk over other people. Maybe that's the corporate culture of the drinks company and he fits right in.

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