F1 » Pirelli unchanged as teams stymie plans

Tyre supplier confirms compounds will remain the same after insufficient testing and lack of agreement amongst teams.

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June 14, 2013 6:27 PM

pcx. what do you think that I pretending about? the 2011 car had far more downforce due to the ebd. and the newer pullrod suspension makes the car handle differently to the older pushrod. look at the trouble that Ferrari had adapting to the new suspension last year! very little if any data could have been gained that would transfer to the 2013 car. apart from that, pdr is not driving this year, so would have gained little or nothing.

funny how you have no problems with merc using the 2013 car and using their existing drivers, yet Ferrari abide by the rules, use an old car and not their current drivers, and you think that is unfair?


June 14, 2013 7:08 PM

you do know they can change the down force levels on those cars right? You do know they have a good idea of how hard they are working their tires and by testing the tires for a good long time in a methodical way it is possible to better understand their performance profile, especially if you are not worried about setting up for a race and what not.

The only thing Merc can be dinged on is by having extra seat time, and thats one rounds worth of points at most, and thats being generous seeing as how they havent exactly monopolized the podium this year.

Mark _

June 14, 2013 7:32 PM
Last Edited 969 days ago

Richard - given the choice would you rather test this year's tires with a two year old car or next year's tires with this year's car? I think that for the current season much more would be learned testing this year's tires with two year old car. PdR is about the most experienced test driver out there. To say that he would not be able to pass along any knowledge kind of brings into question why he is even a test driver in the first place.

Of course none of this has anything to do with rules being broken or not it is just a discussion about which team actually benefitted more.


June 14, 2013 7:47 PM

mark. Ferrari did the same test as merc. tyres for 2014, with some running on revised 2013 tyres. yes, Ferrari might have obtained an iota of info, but totally miniscule to what merc did!

the simple fact is that merc broke the rules, wholesale, Ferrari didn't. and rbr decided that even running a 2011 car would not be of any help to them and didn't take up Pirelli "offer". seeing as many here claim that rbr seek to take any advantage they can , why would rbr turn down the chance to such a test? because it would be of NO benefit.

pcx. 2011 car passed no exhaust heat to the tyres, 2013 does. tyres this year run far hotter, and that is one of the problems. so even if a 2011 is used, the data would be irrelevant.

Mark _

June 14, 2013 8:27 PM

richard - While it does appear that Merc broke the rules, they are innocent until proven guilty. I am not so sure that this is going to be a slam dunk for the prosecution to prove. At this point are there even any witnesses or are they relying on Mercedes to testify against themselves? What kind of clearance did Charlie give? Did Pirelli tell Merc that all teams were offered the chance to test making it a legal test?


June 14, 2013 8:36 PM

mark. granted that merc will do everything they can to wriggle out of this, but I don't see any suppor for them appearing. interesting though, that there is talk that Charlie is possibly getting the shove. so could there be some evidence that he misled Pirelli and/or merc? if so, maybe merc can get off the hook, but there would still be the fact that merc knowlngly breached what every other team knew were the rules. also interesting that Pirelli have "decided" not to bring in the tyres that merc tested, due to other teams objecting.


June 14, 2013 10:26 PM

rich, I think you missed my point, its not about testing x or y car its about putting tires through a controlled regime/procedure (lab experiment) in order to evaluate tires in their 'performance envelope' it doesn't matter if the exhaust is dumping gasses because the weight and loads of the car going in to the tires are what generate the heat by far.

If Ferrari understand with respect to time, what the loads are on their tires they can derive mathmatical models/theoretical understanding from which to serve as a basis for developing their own car and setup.

You do not need to test the same car in order to better understand the tires in order to understand how to setup a different car.

btw, didnt Ferrari beat RBR's best efforts by about 38 seconds at Barcelona? didnt he absolutely just walk that race? I wonder ... hmmm, advantage? NOOOOO, never say that.... lolz.


June 14, 2013 10:31 PM

and RBR would probably have been MORE interested in the test had it been proposed to them before the race :) FYI, even with an older car.

Knowning how to keep the tires at what temperature and at what loads for what times is very important to get the most out of the compound/grip/static friction, optimization.

Ferrari, by testing tires closely related to the 2013 spec, if not the same, would have a very solid theoretical frame work in order to serve as a basis for their own set of 'metrics.'


June 15, 2013 12:16 PM

Will PCX explain what he means by or at least what (static friction) is supposed to mean re the tyres subject.
Richard, RBR didn't consider the test offered to them by Pirelli as valueless, they considered it as breaching the rules.

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