F1 » Silverstone Young Driver Test times – day two: 18 July


Daniel Ricciardo heads the way for Toro Rosso on the second day of the Young Driver Test at Silverstone

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richard

July 19, 2013 7:42 AM

jez. of course the tyres are different. otherwise there would be no need to test, and merc would not ave ben complaining. diferent construction will mean different feel and grip, and who says the compounds are the same? not Pirelli!

mustafur. first of all you say times mean nothing (which I agree with) and the next moment you are saying sainz is not impressive as he is way off pole time of gp. well , by that analogy, NOBODY'S times are therefore impressive. you must compare the drivers like for like and sainz has been fast compared to others and is basically matching ricciardo. not to shabby!

Mustafur

July 19, 2013 9:00 AM

How do you know he matched Ricciardo?

Being in the same car hardly compares, as Ricciardo is forced to do the Pirelli program as he has done over two GPs and isn't allowed to adjust the set up of the car where Sainz is allowed to change the setup and even try new parts as he hasn't done a Single GP.

They may have used a car from the same team but they would of been far from identical.

1Jez

July 19, 2013 9:29 AM

Richard - the FIA says the compounds are the same and it was reported here on crash.net in the story "FIA confirms Silverstone test rules" on 10 July 2013. The FIA statement read - “Only the 2012 construction will be used for the test but with the hard, medium and soft 2013 compounds." I didn't say they weren't different, I said the grip would be comparable as the 2013 compounds are being used. The compound largely dictates the level of grip, that's why there is a hard, medium, soft and supersoft compound on one type of construction.

Pirelli are testing these tyres because they're using the 2012 construction to try and stop them blowing up as they did at the British GP.

Jagworth1

July 19, 2013 10:17 AM

correct me if I am wrong but a couple of years ago at a test day DR did quicker times than SV. Don't read too much into comparing DR and Sainz times. All depends on set up, fuel load, tire wear and a myriad of other variables ...

richard

July 19, 2013 11:15 AM

jez. of course the tyres are different. the construction alters the characteristics considerably, and the compounds will react differently. that was the whole reason why there was a problem this year, the construction changed! if the construction was not going to affect the handling of the cars, why do you think there is a need to test them?

I guess you weren't around when road tyres went from cross plies to radials. if you were, then you would quickly have found out the difference. and then there was a difference between fabric radials and steel belted radials............

1Jez

July 19, 2013 12:08 PM

Argh... Richard - I never said they wouldn't feel different, I said the grip levels would be very similar. You were trying to tell me that the compounds were different for the test - it's in your post at the top of this very page - which is flat out wrong.

Surely you're not saying that the difference between cross ply and radial tyres is comparable to the change in Pirelli F1 tyres from 2012 to 2013?

There is a need to test them to confirm that they wont blow up all the time - that is what precipitated the change. The change in handling is incidental and is not the reason for the change in construction.

richard

July 19, 2013 12:35 PM

jez. as you say aaaarrrggghhhh! do you really understand tyre technology? of course the change in construction will affect the feel, performance and heat of the tyres. they are not testing just to see that they don't blow up!. last year, the belts were Kevlar. for this year, they changed to steel, and the difference was pretty drastic. the tyres were running 20o hotter, and cars that handled well on the Kevlar tyre, were not able to handle the steel. the whole carcase reacts differently. now, a compound that can cope with the higher temperatures of the steel belt, will feel different at lower temps, and the car will handle differently. so the test is to find out how the car handles with a cooler tyre. once a hybrid tyre was introduced for silverstone, merc could not cope with lower temps, leading to less grip. construction and compounds are totally interlinked, and all teams will be trying to assess where the sweet spot is with their car for the new tyre.

oh, and by the wa

1Jez

July 19, 2013 1:00 PM

Stop trying to put words in my posts - I said the GRIP would be virtually the same and made no mention of degredation. My point is proven in the fact that Mercedes have been on the front row of the grid in every race this year except Australia and Malaysia. Hamilton had pole at both the British and German Grands Prix, indicating the grip provided by the differing construction methods was most likely not an issue.

I understand what you're saying and agree with you in that the tyres will react and possibly degrade differently. What I'm saying, and what you can't seem to grasp, is that the peak grip on offer over one lap is unlikely to change very much if at all. This means that in the context of lap times, i.e. what started this discussion, my point still stands.

richard

July 19, 2013 3:21 PM

jez. you are still confusing the issue. nobody is denying that merc have great one lap pace, but it put such a strain on the tyres, through overheating, that they went backwards in the race. now in their test, merc changed their suspension pick up points and also with knowledge if how he new compounds would behave, they were able to find a way to make their tyres run cooler, thus delaying degradation. that allowed them to increase their race pase and save tyres. got it yet?.. but when they had to go back to the older tyres, their new suspension was not allowing those tyres to run cooler, and so they were back to grip problems again.

fine if you want to believe different, but those are the facts as reported on a number of technical sites

1Jez

July 19, 2013 4:27 PM

No, YOU are confusing the issue. Mercedes do not have grip problems, they have degradation/temperature problems. If they had grip problems, how could they perform so well so consistently in qualifying? You don't get pole position if you're lacking grip.

Fine mate, whatever, you're right and I'm wrong. The compounds are different and despite the FIA statement to the contrary, Richard's internet based research and comprehensive understanding of cross ply and radial tyre construction proves otherwise. I'll be sure to clarify any future FIA statements with you to determine their technical accuracy.

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