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@Richard - It's interesting (and possibly Ironic) that you mentioned what ''Chrisitan Horner' was able to do with the Jaguar Team -- as what Christina Horner did with Jaguar is the exact same thing Bobby Rahal TRIED TO DO.. for Jaguar and that is to steal Adrian Newey away from Mclaren -- Rahal promised Ford he could get Newey but Ron Dennis counter offer was enough to make Newey stay so Rahal was fired --when on attempt two.. Newey was finally over Mclaren and came to 'Jaguar' aka Redbull racing in 2005. what Christian Horner 'did' for Jaguar was hire Adrian Newey -- now apparently Paddy Lowe is also over Mclaren but this time the Ron Dennis counter-offer did not work --and Paddy Lowe is following Lewis Hamilton over to Mercedes F1 -- which I'm guessing will become the new Mclaren and Mclaren is getting set up to slip down the order in 2014. Sorry Richard.