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@RacerX1 --I mentioned Nigel Mansell's performances in IndyCar . does the (then) current Formula One world champion fit your criteria as well as an 'effete forcefully retired' whatever? Nigel Mansell never won a race on any of the IndyCar road courses or street circuits..btw one of 'my' racing series is F1. And speaking of that.. 'mediocre' Rubens Barrichello finished 2nd in the F1 wdc twice and 3rd once.. trounced Nico Hulkenburg and out-pointed Pastor Maldonado right BEFORE coming to indyCar.Cheers.