MotoGP » Will aluminium frame be Ducati's silver bullet?


"The positives of this bike are certainly the engine, which I like, and the fact that it handles a bit better than the previous one" – Valentino Rossi.

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RawDawg

November 11, 2011 2:41 PM

@Hongamanooga

Hey buddy, I can read and he clearly said Simoncelli's death vindicated Rossi on some level which it doesn't because one has nothing to do with the other. If you think Rossi is riding arounding thinking "I need to take it easy because I might die" than you are mistaken. Any racer will tell you that if you are riding arounding thinking like that then it's time hang up the helmet. Rossi is riding the bike as fast as he can which may not be good enough for wins yet but he's not were he is on the time sheet because he's thinking about falling off and dying. So yes, do leave Simoncelli out of this.

SwissJudge

November 11, 2011 3:36 PM


As far as marketing and sales are concerned there is scope for discussion. But any predictions relating to the Ducati eg the riding position and or the frame is well...a waste of time.
Tyres. suspension. frame. motor. transmission. brakes. electronics. software. analysts. etc. etc. etc. There is simply NO WAY that a rider in fact any rider is going to get his head around it all. Keep it simple stupid is the way. Rider explains how the bike feels to an engineer and that is it..period.
Rossi is impressive but what Burgess and the chief inhouse engineer from the manufacturers do is even more impressive. These guys have to get their head around it all. But cirtainly not to the extent that they know more than say a tyre expert. And the tyre expert probably has the same deal with his team of experts who each deal with a different aspect of tyre development or knowledge.

TedG

November 11, 2011 7:17 PM

When it comes to marketing and the relationship to racing it has two flavors.
First if a customer is concerned how a race bike effects the bike he is considering, he is going to look at the production based race bikes like WSB etc.
Second MotoGP is more about image, most know that the bikes used have little or no shared technology, but do expect that what works well, will trickle down eventually.
But they do want to see their brand choice win and not with just one rider. Ducati knows this good and well. So they have built a bike that works within the framework of MotoGP. Finally the politics have been put aside and common sense has taken over.

motomoto - Unregistered

November 11, 2011 8:24 PM

lots of laughs ,, thanks

back on point: reinventing the gp bike won't hurt any sales, that's obvious. What isn't an obvious fix is Ducati re-inventing the wheel. Those operating on a higher plane know that the Duck has always been fast but it had to be ridden different. Stoner isn't god, he just knew how to ride it. Ducati should be looking for different riders. Rossi can't adapt, period ,,and that's not hating it's just fact. It's cheaper and quicker to find a rider to ride the current bike than it is to pump a few million $$ to build a bike around a rider. Also By now you would think that the myth of Rossi (or any rider) "developing" anything would be realized, but empty heads abound. Burgess and Rossi are a great team that can tune with the best of them but they don't design, engineer or develop anything. If Ducati stay in gp after next year (which I doubt) they will have to have an inline 4 simply to appease Rossi,, Then again, he'll probably retire.

TedG

November 11, 2011 9:38 PM

@motomoto,
It looks bad when only one person can get any kind of results on their bike. Ducati doesn't only have the factory team. Any team that has a Ducati has had dismal results. So the best thing is to build a bike that more riders can get results on and show that they have the technical know how.

NutBallRacer

November 12, 2011 12:07 AM

@ RawDawg - On the comments that only engineers develop bikes, backed by Rossi's comment that he is only a rider - with all due respect, aren't you being a little hard-over on that issue? Rossi was saying he is a cog in the wheel of development, not the total answer. That is the truth. It is also true he is perhaps THE "high water mark" of quality technical feedback to engineers. This has always been said by his engineers. It is also true that some notable riders were lesser able (Criville, Barros, and certainly Biaggi, possibly Capirossi and Gibernau) or completely helpless in the feedback department (Kocinski), and their results showed it. So just because Rossi says he cannot provide all solutions himself does not mean he is irrelevant to development as you seem to say. No offense, buddy, I agree with most of your insight. Cheers.

BillAce - Unregistered

November 12, 2011 1:04 AM

TedG,

I don't believe for a second that Ducati has any expectation of getting a customer bike on the podium and I doubt their leasees do either for that matter. This concept of making a bike everyone can win on is just a little far fetched for me.

Look at the facts, there are 3 elite riders who are almost always on the podium barring incident. Getting 2 bikes there was challenging when Stoner had Ducati in the mix up front, this year Honda has been able to do that often because Spies didn't challenge for podiums and the Ducati disappeared.

As the new kid on the block and a small operation Ducati would pray for a podium, they were able to get 2 bikes there on odd occasions but that comes down to Hayden and honestly isn't likely with the current crop of riders and new talent that will be joining the fray. Ducati doesn't care about a bike everyone can ride they are trying to make a bike that 1 rider will get comfortable on and put it back up front.

RawDawg

November 12, 2011 1:14 AM

"So just because Rossi says he cannot provide all solutions himself does not mean he is irrelevant to development as you seem to say."

@NutBallRacer

No, I don't seem to say he is irrelevant. I clearly say "Engineers and riders both need each other" so don't take what I say out of context.

And since you brought it up, Biaggi actually has a pretty good rep at giving feedback so he shouldn't be on your list. Not only has he turn the Aprilia into a winner he was the one who identified the flaw in the M1 chassis. He left Yamaha because they won't listen to him but they admitted he was right the year after he left. I have no idea why Barros and Sete are on your list because they have never been #1 riders in factory teams and haven't developed anything. Kocinski was called in to do development work on the M1 for Yamaha in the early 2000's right before the 4stroke era so he must not have been too bad. And Loris help turn the Ducati 990 into a winner as well. Don't confuse "success" with th

RawDawg

November 12, 2011 1:15 AM

Don't confuse "success" with the ability to give feedback or develop. Being able to win races and titles doesn't mean your the best at giving feedback (Mike the bike has been said wasn't very good) and not winning GPs doesn't mean you aren't any good (Colin Edwards has always been noted). So the "their results showed it" comment is meaningless - racing and developing isn't the same.

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