MotoGP » Abraham Sr: CRT not a step backwards


“The transition from prototype is not a step backwards but rather a side-step" - Karel Abraham Sr.

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TalentFan

January 29, 2013 9:43 AM

Just food for thought for all those geniuses out there slagging off CRT's....
This popped into my head, so I looked up a couple of things using Mugello (at random - but anyway a fast track that shouldn't favour CRT's)...

2004. Pole (Sete Gibernau) 1.49.533
2008. Pole (Valentino Rossi) 1.48.13
2008. 13th (Andrea Doviziso) 1.49.565

2012. 10th (Valentino Rossi) 1.48.502
2012. 12th (Aleix Espagaro) 1.49.387

So, a CRT (without a top-rated rider) laps in a time that would have been on pole in 2004, & beaten Dovi in 2008 is a rubbish bike? Fans weren't disappointed in the performance of the bikes then or saying they were too slow to be exciting to watch were they?
Yet a field full of CRT's today would be rubbish? Fans need to get some perspective I think. If the series has to cut costs and tech, and change the rules to survive, then stop thinking the resulting bikes will be rubbish, because they won't.

TalentFan

January 29, 2013 9:53 AM

To add more interest to the debate.... by coincidence Okada debuted a Honda with pneumatic valves at Mugello 2008 (meaning all the other factory bikes were running conventional valve spring systems except the Desmosedici).

The first Satellite bike in Quali was JT (8th Tech 3, in 1.49.025), while A.Esp's CRT in the same race would have out-qualified Dovi's satellite JiT Honda at his home race.

And fans wonder why HRC / Yam factories want to keep fuel limits, pneumatic valves, special gearboxes, masses of electronics etc? Simple - its the only way they can BUY their way to MotoGP w/c's - without them CRT's with a bit of development would be ALL OVER the factory 'prototypes'. Food for thought eh?

TalentFan

January 29, 2013 10:23 AM

More food for thought....
Simply cos I was there in Mugello 2007, I looked up the race times, then compared them with 2012....

2007 Winner (Rossi, Fiat Yamaha Factory) 42 min 42.385
2012 12th (Randy de Puniet, Aprilia ART) 42 min 37.440

Think about that and let it sink in - a 2012 CRT, in traffic, did a race time that would have beaten Valentino Rossi, at a track he dominated on, at arguably the peak of his abilities, while riding a Factory Yamaha just 5-years previously. That has to suggest a 2012 CRT is better than a 2007 full factory Yamaha, in its 1st year of development!

My point? All I'm saying is, fans need to get the daft idea out of their head that without the factory bikes and all the gizmo's that MotoGP would be rubbish. All the evidence is there to say otherwise. Maybe its long past time to stop slagging Ezpeleta & start paying attention to him?

RSMick

January 29, 2013 10:50 AM

mt quote "It's funny that CRT is basically an Aprilia class. Wasn't that the main reason for 125's and 250's getting the axe? How long before CRT gets the axe?"

What all four of them? I think you'll find that in the 250 in 2008 when the decision to go Moto there was 5 that wasn't Aprilia and the same in 125.

jerginz - Unregistered

January 29, 2013 4:58 PM

talentfan, dovi was a rookie in 08 while espargaro has had a few seasons in gp. I believe 07, the first year of 800cc, was the one of the worst for yamaha in recent times as well. also I would expect that after 8 years of technological development, a crt would be on par with if not surpassing times set in 2004. The fact is crt's now have to compete with factory and sat. hondas and yamahas of 2013 not 2004. What they need is a decent rider. the best they have is de puniet who has like what 2 podiums in his entire motogp career? Edwards is probably better but he's on a worse bike.

jerginz - Unregistered

January 29, 2013 5:01 PM

I don't mean technological development over 8 years specifically for crt's since they are only a few years old, but all the factors of motorcycle racing that have been improved upon since 2004.

TalentFan

January 29, 2013 6:22 PM

My point jerginz was that CRT's are plenty fast enough for great racing. The Factory bikes are faster yes (well, a few of them are) but faster lap times hasn't resulted in better racing - just the opposite.

So "all factors have been improved in motorcycle racing" is NOT the case. MotoGP isn't thriving, just the opposite - so the fact that 4 bikes are 'fastest ever' means nothing.

TalentFan

January 29, 2013 9:47 PM
Last Edited 695 days ago

It was interesting to notice that HRC ran their pneumatic valve engine first in Mugello '08. I hadn't realised that.
Seems like the shock of the Desmosedici / Stoner combo WC in 2007 made HRC feel they had to use F1 technology to combat the Desmodromic valve system. It also seems that both Ducati and Honda underestimated the contribution of Stoner's mercurial talent in that WC.
Is Mugello 2008 Honda's first shot taken in the mad Arms Race of ever-bigger cheques for ever-smaller gains that has brought us to this point?

jerginz - Unregistered

January 30, 2013 1:13 AM

I agree I feel that the success of the crts is very much hindered by the inferior talent of the crt riders to the satellite and especially factory riders. Although it won't happen, it would be interesting to see pedrosa, lorenzo, rossi do some laps on a crt bike so we could really see the potential of the crts. I mean the crt riders now are just glorified moto2 riders for the most part.

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