MotoGP » Le Mans: Dovizioso 'so happy' after strong race


“I'm so happy with the race” – Andrea Dovizioso.

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TalentFan

May 21, 2013 9:49 AM

@ Jambop. As far as the 'Rossi developed' myth goes that you allude to... Apart from the fact that the rider provides the feedback on the intangibles the sensors cannot measure such as feel and feedback, it is the engineers who design and develop, not riders.

2nd - VR wasn't helping Ducati 'develop' a for anyone else - if he could have done better for himself, he would have.

3rd - as evidenced by the quali and general pace - Rossi wasn't able to get as much out of the bike as expected, and couldn't push it anything like as hard as Stoner. Which makes his input less useful as if you aren't pushing the limits, then the data isn't moving you forward. Seems Dovi IS pushing the closer to the limit than Vale managed - so its a fair shout that Dovi is actually helping himself on that bike better than Rossi was.

Sorry - but crediting Rossi with any advances Ducati team make is simply not correct and unfair to Ducati and their current pilots IMO.

TalentFan

May 21, 2013 9:52 AM
Last Edited 489 days ago

@ Jambop expanding on my above post......

Has it ever occurred to you that Dovi "setting the bike up for to get the fast lap" is actually pushing more to the limit of the bike and aiding set-up advances?

Isn't it just possible that as Dovi explores limits and outright speed that Vale could not find in the Ducati, combined with his calm and methodical manner and approach is aiding Ducati's engineers to collect useful data which is then being fed back into the set-up, which in turn is helping the Ducati maintain pace better bit by bit?

TalentFan

May 21, 2013 10:08 AM

@ Realist

I question the relevance of comparing Rossi's 2011 results at the same tracks with Dovi's 2013 ones.

For openers the competitive situation is very different. 2013 so far is closer and more competitive - so it can be argued that its harder to get a top 7 result this year than 2011 maybe? Also the bike Dovi is on is basically the 2012 one, not the 2011 one so a greater variable.

Also, there is Rossi himself - in 2011 he was running in the positions you stated on the Ducati (which was of course & understandably attributed to the bikes failings and not Rossi's riding). With Rossi back on one of the best 4 bikes on the grid then Dovi also has to deal with the fact that Rossi should be taking a spot off him, thus making it even harder again to get similar results to VR's 2011 efforts in 2013.

As I say - you can't really compare them and get meaningful answers due to the number of variables every race, every season. The stats alone simply do not tell the whole story - its mu

TalentFan

May 21, 2013 10:20 AM
Last Edited 488 days ago

cont... The stats alone simply do not tell the whole story - its much more complicated than that.

Taking a general overview I've been impressed with Dovi's application to the task, the way he has gone about things & conducted himself, as well as his on-track quali & efforts.

IMO Dovi looks more comfortable & natural on that Ducati than Rossi ever did. Rossi looked tense & ill-at-ease much of the time on a Duke - nothing like his body language on the Yam in 2010.

There are many things that aren't tangibles or stats that make me think Dovi IS doing better on the Ducati than Rossi did, & that slowly the competitiveness will be proved - maybe not in final position, but I think the race time gap between the winner & the Ducati will show this.

Time gap to 1st over race distance is a probably a better indicator of overall competitiveness than final race position across seasons to judge anyway.

Codger

May 21, 2013 11:11 AM
Last Edited 488 days ago

@ TalentFan.....nice set of posts.

Your points are well thought out and logical.
May I add that Rossi spent a year crashing to find the limits and then stated publicly that the bike was not capable of higher than 6th and he was not prepared to throw it in the gravel trying for higher. Most imply that it was wrong for him to 'not try hard enough', I call it common sense and honest to admit it. (after all a broken bike won't tell the engineers much)
Dovi has adapted to the bike very, very quickly and found that it's limit hasn't changed much from Rossi's day and has said that he will wait for new parts before trying too hard. Nicky, the common factor, is doing a steady job as always.
My view is that the bike hasn't improved in it's capabilities, but is easier (and safer :) ) to reach them now.
If Rossi saw a chance of a good result he went for it and I do think that if he had been on it in Le Mans he would have achieved the same or better than Dovi or Nicky.
to be continued.

Codger

May 21, 2013 11:15 AM

cont.
I say all this as a Dovi fan, and also I want Ducati to be fighting for podiums.

If the long awaited new engine cases arrive we'll see that Dovi is a far a better rider than a lot of people think.

TalentFan

May 21, 2013 3:07 PM

@ Codger. I generally agree. Although - I do have to say that the bike certainly was capable of higher than 6th when the previous incumbent who shall not be named was riding it.

Which has to mean that (despite the fact that it might have been damned dangerous and right on the limit all the time) that it certainly was POSSIBLE to force that bike faster than VR felt was possible, as the bike he got on had managed to get a heck of a lot higher than 6th (when it stayed upright).

Ergo it has to be POSSIBLE that another rider could ALSO get more out of the bike than VR. Again - I think we have to look at relative full race distance time against the winner to see if progress is being made (maybe even as an average over the season to smooth out any anomalies & separate wet and dry races?)

TalentFan

May 21, 2013 5:26 PM

On a bit of a tangent....

Imagine Marquez on a Ducati! MM seems to have no concept of what you are and are not supposed to be able to do on and with a MotoGP bike. He seems fearless (maybe simply cos the kid doesn't know any better yet?) and just wrings its neck and goes - FAST!

That remind you of anyone? Maybe someone who might have recently retired, and who was more than pretty handy on a Bologna Bullet?

I don't know if MM would be mercurially fast or fire himself TO Mercury on a Ducati - but it would certainly be interesting watching while he found out!

CRT - Unregistered

May 21, 2013 5:46 PM

@ TalentFan,

Ducati's problems will run far deeper than getting the bike close to that of Honda and Yamaha.

For arguments sake, let's say that Ducati gets it sorted and Dovi is running a consistant 5th place behind the 2 Yams and 2 Hons. Ducati still does not have a rider that is capable of winning a championship. Podium for sure, but not a title. The stigma that Ducati became post Rossi will probably resonate for several years to come. Many riders took a Ducati ride (either factory or satelite) simply because no better rides were available. This still holds true.

Ducati is going to have to do it better then the rest in order to secure a championship contender. They may get lucky again by finding the next Marquez/Stoner, but how often do they come around?

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