MotoGP » MotoGP claiming rule dropped


"MotoGP Class - Effective 2014: The engine claiming rule is cancelled completely."

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TalentFan

July 04, 2013 12:20 PM

@ RSMick. "I dont believe its totally broken from a business point of view, from a racing point of view it has to evolve, slowly move from one to another with the times. Not revolution.
That's what it is doing yet everybody moans stop changing the rules!"

How can the racing 'evolve' while the factories gain increasing control over the field, so can heavily influence the outcome on as well as OFF the track. It cannot.

Whichever direction you come at it from, then logically IMO Factory involvement is a destructive element, and one that WILL NOT willingly relinquish its stranglehold.

If you find you have a cancer and you can't kill it, then you cut it out. It'd be nice if there was a way to resolve it differently, but 'the nature of the beast' says the Factories will always want to stifle competition and win any way they can.

The fundamental problem is that their wants/needs are opposite to those of motorcycle Racing / Sport in general.

TalentFan

July 04, 2013 12:29 PM

"Motogp is where the best riders are and they very rarely make a mistake, when they do they fall behind and its very hard to catch up, because the winner makes very few if any mistakes. The result spaced racing."

What you DON'T say is that those with the most sophisticated electronics and mapping solutions have the machines optimised for corner entry, mid-corner, corner exit, braking - everything, every lap. So the opportunity for rider input - be it error or sublime skill, is increasingly marginalised by the tech.
Hello processional racing with minimal overtaking and very few moments of interest in 45 mins of an event.

Thats not the riders - they are very, very good, yes. But the electronics limit time lost through small rider errors far, far more. That's another piece of misdirection Mick - humans make mistakes as they find limits by feel - electronics take that element away, and sterilise racing, NOT riders.

RSMick

July 04, 2013 12:30 PM

I have told you my solution, a business grows by adjusting its product with the times and the demand of its customers as must its vendors, it does not do that in one swing of the sword unless its on its knees, whatever way you look at it its not. It went through its low and out the other side.
When Dorna took over there were 14 bikes on the grid, the series has taken highs and lows which any good business does, any business that grows on a very steep incline sets investors in a panic.
Look at the difference between the 2 series and people who bother to post on here believed that all was brilliant at WSB because the races weren't bad, they weren't great either. However, the bikes were falling year on year, crowds were falling from a low year on year, TV coverage falling year on year, but, the promoter did nothing except give rounds away for free and sign a crazy tv contract. But never mind no money but the racing is good, (matter of opinion)

RSMick

July 04, 2013 12:35 PM
Last Edited 532 days ago

Not the electronics things again, it does not work like that, if it did Rossi and Lorenzo would be side by side all the time, Crutchlow and Smith would and so on.
Moto2 has very little electronics yet they all don't finish across the line together.
The biggest case of a manufacturer controlling the result is in Moto3, that is an easy one to solve which they will change next year.

"If you find you have a cancer and you can't kill it, then you cut it out"
But it will grow again!

TalentFan

July 04, 2013 2:15 PM

"Not the electronics things again, it does not work like that, if it did Rossi and Lorenzo would be side by side all the time".

Nope. Human input and track constraints will put one in front of the other, and then it'll be largely follow-my-leader after that. Which happens. A lot.

"Moto2 has very little electronics yet they all don't finish across the line together."

No, they don't. Funnily enough rider talent shows through, and there tends to be lots of overtaking and battles through the field, and exciting racing. Without loads of electronics. You just proved my point.

M3 will be sorted, sure. HRC will want KTM hamstrung pronto won't they! Sorted HOW and is it the fan or HRC who are the net gainer is the biggie IMO.

TalentFan

July 04, 2013 2:21 PM

And... we know that WSBK is on its ar$e even though the racing is better than MotoGP. But then we can state there that its a whole different kind of mismanagement by the suits that messed that up can't we?

You can also say that Dorna implementing all the measures that patently don't work in MGP and repeating them in WSBK as they seem to be smacks of either ineptitude or (again) another agenda under the table.

But imagine if MotoGP could actually amalgamate all the best aspects and directions of the various models and series that are out there...

It will never happen simply cos the business suits (I have to say you're sounding a lot like you ARE one Mick) have a different agenda and more.... personal reasons for corporate decision-making that looks damn fishy to the rest of us.

TalentFan

July 04, 2013 2:26 PM

as for....

"I have told you my solution, a business grows by adjusting its product with the times and the demand of its customers as must its vendors"

That's about as vague and wishy-washy a response as it is possible to make. Mick - you should be a politician - you've missed your calling! That isn't a solution Mick - its a cop-out.

How about some hard specifics on what YOU think it'll take to put things right. You think what I've put is idealistic nonsense (while I don't think you've really dented the key problems and points made). I've suggested bold and unambiguous action - so far you've offered up a soundbyte!

RSMick

July 04, 2013 2:41 PM
Last Edited 532 days ago

I have no problem in the way its heading, restrain the manufacturers whilst allowing freedom for the privateers. The only one I do not agree with is to qualify for start money and travel you have to finnish in the top 22, that has not worked for cars. Keep it at 24 and not allow the likes of Suzuki to enter unless they find a team to partner or buy.
Obviously some like it as another (according to press) has just announced its 3 stage plan to enter and could be upping its game as early as next week now the CRT has gone for Magnetti users.
Your idea's are just based on getting rid of manufacturers, whilst that kind of works in car racing it won't at this time for bikes. Apart from that you have come up with nothing, oh except the old get rid of electronics, not practicle or possible.

Like it or not bike racing is a business as are the teams who need sponsors, most of them not totally interested in the racing but using it as a marketing tool.

RSMick

July 04, 2013 2:56 PM
Last Edited 532 days ago

A business cannot survive without its blood, money.
If you ever attended a a GP race as a guest you would come away with the feeling that the whole thing would not survive without the sponsors product, people who are guests usually have no idea of the racing, but they have money.
I went as a guest of a SBK team last year and got a cap and left with out knowing any more about the company who invited me. The only one in the paddock that was doing good promotion was Cresent Suzuki, I wonder why that is? A guy from their guest list asked me which race Rossi and Lorenzo were in.

TalentFan

July 04, 2013 3:07 PM

"Your idea's are just based on getting rid of manufacturers, whilst that kind of works in car racing it won't at this time for bikes. Apart from that you have come up with nothing, oh except the old get rid of electronics, not practicle or possible."

You say it WON'T work. I'd be interested to know WHY you say that.
I didn't say ELIMINATE electronics, but I do say LIMIT and RESTRICT. Which surely IS possible (well it would be without the Mfrs anyway).

Easiest changes I proposed to cut costs and improve competitiveness actually were:
Single ECU Map for a race - fixed - no corner-by corner etc. Limit mean piston speeds to limits where Pneumatics are irrelevant. Ban carbon discs. That'd be a good start

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