MOTOGP » Honda's 2008 gamble - EXCLUSIVE

MOTOGP » Honda's 2008 gamble - EXCLUSIVE

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<B>Honda's 2008 gamble</B> - EXCLUSIVE

Here:

<B>Honda's 2008 gamble</B> - EXCLUSIVE

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10 agree. 4 disagree.

I'm truly disappointed in this sport because anyone with a little common sence can see it is going to the dogs this way.
They are making 800 four strokes act like 250 two strokes with traction control and slipper clutch,
launch control and anti wheelie settings. You don't really know who is the best rider anymore as you need to be an ICT expert to decypher the systems they're running.
You can't hail the king without hailing the programmer, high tech industry in his country and globalisation.
Fiat Yamaha declared after the Valencia race: 'it turned out to be a software problem, we upgrated to the newest version to be sure it won't happen again' WTF IS GOING ON HERE, BAN THE BLOODY ELECTRONICS

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (739 days ago)

Can an all-new RC212V return the MotoGP title to Honda in 2008?

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1 disagrees.

From the Mike Nicks Valencia blog:
(Yamaha Chief Engineer Masao Furusawa) admitted that valve springs had a ceiling of 19,000-20,000rpm. But he said: "Increasing the rpm increases the power, but at the same time you have more friction between the piston and the cylinder. And I don't think that over 20,000rpm is the way to go. I would like to make an engine that has lower rpm but good torque, one that makes a good 'conversation' between the rider and the tyre."

Yamaha has tested a pneumatic-valve engine this year, but Kouichi Tsuji, leader of the M1 project, said: "From the point of view of fuel efficiency and power, we have had no gain from it. If we find a benefit we would be

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (739 days ago)

1 disagrees.

And now we hanve Honda using the exact same thing that Yamaha tried and gave up on. Is this Honda playing catch-up a bit too late? Only time will tell.

Posted by Calvin - Unregistered (739 days ago)

1 disagrees.

So Morque,a sleeve valve motor is restricted to 14,000RPM of course you would have noted during your research that these old sleeve valve motors were single cams therefore if 2 cams were used that would let a motor rev to 28,000RPM,the sleeve valve produces no more fricton that a desmodromic motor that is still turning rotary motion into reciprocating motion thus using power to make power.The rotary motion of the sleeve valve does not have overcome reverse inertia.With todays materials EG Alloys,Ceramics,Carbonfibre this system could be the answer the reason they stopped using this system was maintance cost which wouldnt worry MotoGp bike makers,also metalurgy for valve springs improved

Posted by Saltbush - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

I agree with you on the modern materials Saltbush, they can make a big difference.
I named 14000 revs as it is 'about' the current limit for MotoGP engines,
another problem (besides excessive friction) is the mass of the sleeves and drivetrain that has to be put in motion,
this can also limit the amount of revs as well as throttle response.
There's more, like leakage (the analogy with trying to seal a *****l rotary engine comes to mind)
and onverheating issues. I agree the sleeve valve engine was a good design, some very powerful examples were built
like the Bristol Hercules and Napier Sabre. Good about it is you can make an alost 'ideal' combustion chambre as the valves don't get in the way

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

That was a W a n k e l rotary engine, lol

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

Morque the ****le motor did not have pistons. If you would like to Google CSRV Rotary Cylinderhead you will see a modern type sleeve valve system, lets know what you think about the engineering,,,,,,,bloody Aussies. Also if you Google sleeve valve motor you will see the older type designed by Knight it was used on many cars pre 1930's, they did have to pay a hugh royalties, some very famous old makers used sleeve valves.

Posted by Saltbush - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

I know mate,
the W a n k e l engine has a rotor, I mentioned it because it too features leaking issues, like the sleeve valve.
Another thing about a sleeve valve engine is it builds wider, in the current inline fours the cooling fluid is very close to the cylinder wall and the cylinders can be very close together, making for a small engine block.

Youe CSRV Rotary Cylinderhead looks very promising, beautiful piece of machinery ;-)

Now that's what I like, less moving parts, simple but sturdy, is it an Australian patent?
Better not tell Honda, they'll nick it...
Thanks for the tip, I'll read some more about it

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

Sorry Saltbush, was away.

Read it now, that is a different kind of sleeve valve construction than I described, very clever
the CSRV Rotary Cylinderhead takes up little space and has less friction, it looks almost like a
rotary inlet disk that you find on some 2-strokes but then threedimensional, spherical.
If they make them that way the engine can still be very compact and rev high

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

Morque,CSRV head should be an Aussie patent in the 60's Merv Waggot and Phil Irving (of HRD fame) made three sleeve valve heads for an Aussie car called a Holden,the head took the standard motor 60bhp to 240bhp not a bad increase these heads were used in racing cars and speedboats,there were a few problems but nothing that couldn't be rectified with money thrown at it,of course they didn't take out a patent typical Australians,(in fact we haven't taken a patent on Casey Stoner)I have wondered over the years when somebody would re-invent this head as I believe this is the way to go for high reving motors,I hope it is devoloped to its full,do you believe Honda read this forum :-o

Posted by Saltbush - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

Oww.. better keep it hush hush then

real interesting design, thank you Saltbush!

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

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