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<B>Honda's 2008 gamble</B> - EXCLUSIVE

<B>Honda's 2008 gamble</B> - EXCLUSIVE

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10 agree. 4 disagree.

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I'm truly disappointed in this sport because anyone with a little common sence can see it is going to the dogs this way.
They are making 800 four strokes act like 250 two strokes with traction control and slipper clutch,
launch control and anti wheelie settings. You don't really know who is the best rider anymore as you need to be an ICT expert to decypher the systems they're running.
You can't hail the king without hailing the programmer, high tech industry in his country and globalisation.
Fiat Yamaha declared after the Valencia race: 'it turned out to be a software problem, we upgrated to the newest version to be sure it won't happen again' WTF IS GOING ON HERE, BAN THE BLOODY ELECTRONICS

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (740 days ago)

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MOTOGP » Honda's 2008 gamble - EXCLUSIVE

Can an all-new RC212V return the MotoGP title to Honda in 2008?

» Read The Full Story

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2 agree. 1 disagrees.

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So fujiwara is saying that more horsepower isn't his goal? Sounds pretty stupid to me, because the can perfect power deliery and low range power/torque but if they don't have high range they are screwed, and I believe they are going toward that direction. Think about it, they are the only ones not using pneumatic or desmodromics, that must say something. Yamaha is imo not going the right way. It seems to me that he is admitting that Yamaha's electronics and fuel management are under-par.

Posted by Jdubs - Unregistered (739 days ago)

1 disagrees.

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Are you an engineer?
Upping the revs can also make the engine more 'peaky', like a 2-stroke.
Why do you think Honda is playing with the engine mapping to find a good setup for their new engine?
What you need is drive, manageable power over a wide range that doesn't eat up the tyres.
Look at the Aprilia RS Cube, loads of power but unrideable beast.
And in the end if an engine drains the fuel before the race ends you're nowhere.
The Yamaha engineers are wise to acces the situation and develop without jumping into something wild
like churning out a V4 like Rossi wants. That will not get them there.

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

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Yamaha uses an Italian Magneti Marelli traction control system, like Ducati does,
that doesn't mean they have the same software or possibilities with it
(it broke down at Valencia, strange huh?).
I will not be surprised if Ducati as an Italian factory gets preferencial treatment from Magneti Marelli.
Stoner explained after Assen they have a built in setting that prevents them from running dry during a race.
Honda and Suzuki run their own, I don't know about Kawasaki.
Maybe Yamaha should do it too, though it will take time to develop something that complex.
I am convinced these systems are as important as the engine or the quality of the tyres.

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

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I never said that having a smooth power delivery isn't the way to go. I believe that they should be working on that while increasing revs and power. Engine management is key I completely agree, but so is increasing power, especially if Yamaha wants to challenge Ducati or Honda, even Kawasaki.

Posted by Jdubs - Unregistered (738 days ago)

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their main priority may trying to prevent losing the power by slipping and sliding allover the track,
especially at race end.

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

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Morgue and Saltbush got me curious about energy lost to the valve train.
This might be interesting, or maybe just elementary to you guys I don't know but:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.tech/browse_thread/thread/c5b4e7550e9ae662/587

Posted by Matt - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

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Thank you very much Matt, that is an interesting discussion.

I am quite sure from experience that the valve train friction does not absorb that much energy and thet the real issue
is loss of power due to valve floating (with the added risk of the valves hitting the piston and breaking.
The spherical rotary valve system has its own issues in the form of inefficient gas flow (unwanted in a high performance device like an 800cc MotoGP engine) and leaking, they have to be manufactured with incredibly small tolerances to be tight. The tighter, the more friction (and wear).
Nothing seals as good as the standard mushroom valves, the force of the combustion presses them into their seats.

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

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Thank you very much Matt, that is an interesting discussion.

I am quite sure from experience that the valve train friction does not absorb that much energy and that the real issue
is loss of power due to valve floating (with the added risk of the valves hitting the piston and breaking.
The spherical rotary valve system has its own issues in the form of inefficient gas flow (unwanted in a high performance device like an 800cc MotoGP engine) and leaking, they have to be manufactured with incredibly small tolerances to be tight. The tighter, the more friction (and wear).
Nothing seals as good as the standard mushroom valves, the force of the combustion presses them into their seats.

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

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Thank you very much Matt, that is an interesting discussion.

I am quite sure from experience that the valve train friction does not absorb that much energy and that the real issue
is loss of power due to valve floating (with the added risk of the valves hitting the piston and breaking.
The spherical rotary valve system has its own issues in the form of inefficient gas flow (unwanted in a high performance device like an 800cc MotoGP engine) and leaking, they have to be manufactured with incredibly small tolerances to be tight. The tighter, the more friction (and wear).
Nothing seals as good as the standard mushroom valves, the force of the combustion presses them into their seats.

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

1 disagrees.

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woops... sorry about that :blush:

:blush:

Posted by Morgue - Unregistered (738 days ago)

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