MOTOGP » Rossi red hot at Sepang

Saran.Ducati is the team that is most aligned to F1 technology and they have made it work providing of course it is riden as designed. It could be argued that the most valuable person in MotoGP racing today is Ducati's chief engineer but it takes a whole team to make things happen. Also Ducati's collaboration with Ferrari and Shell is something other teams do not have the equivalent of. Changing the front fairing is not so simple as it took many months for Stoner to get his request for a fairing that was less susceptible to cross winds. Aero work on the Ducati was done by one of the prominent F1 engineers. The easiest place to pass is in a straight line so good aero is all part of a package

Morgue and Al..Since both of you have offered a response to my height or C of G question re it's effect on two wheels could you both go further. Morgue says a high C of G makes it harder to change direction due to the gyro effect which seems quite valid but would the steering axis angle also combine here to cause the ideal C of G to vary according to that angle(I think in cars that would be called kingpin inclination). Could each of you offer more here as I am keen to learn more about two wheel dynamics. Also once into a corner what effect does C of G have,if any,as most riders seem to be scraping the deck as is. Will a higher C of G produce more mid corner grip? Over to you guys.

I believe Morgue actually mentioned gyro effects in respect of wheels (rotating parts) more than in relation to c of g. In those terms a "lighter" set of wheels makes a large difference to how easy a machine is to "throw around". As far as cornering goes, you as a rider can move the c of g away from the center line of the bike and towards the inside of the machine which reduces the required lean angle (riders hanging off) for any given corner speed. C of G height verses grip, I've seen people try to argue that one along the lines of different c of g heights changing lean angles (not moving c of g off center) and so changing grip levels, I'd suggest a bit of googling, there's a lot of debate!

Thanks Al..To summarise what you are saying the rider has a far greater input to overall performance on two wheels due to these variables. This is unlike F1 where the effect of aero has relegated the drivers role in overall performance to mealy filling the gap between the front and rear wheels.

Is the gyro that is being discussed short for gyroscope is there any difference between gyro, gyroscope , gyroscopic would gyroscopic be the complete mass of the bike or just the wheels and tyres is there a difference between inertia does inertia only pertain to the reciprocating parts of the motor????

Saltbush..Yes gyro is short for gyroscope which is a rotating mass mainly used in aircraft artificial horizons which lets a pilot know which way is up when they cannot see the horizon. This rotating mass will maintain it's position as every thing moves about it. The rotating mass can be moved about it's axis however a force applied to the spinning mass is felt at 90 degrees in the direction of the spinning mass. From memory inertia is something trying to maintain it's current position or a measure of what it takes to change that position or situation like a piston reaching the top or it's travel then changing direction.

CA thank you, so if you have a rotating gyroscope/gyroscopic weighted wheel travelling in the opposite direction to the rotation of the road wheels could you keep the bike more upright when cornering therefore having more tyre contact with road and giving you a better cornering speed?????OR should we just let Rossi and and Stoner work it out on the run????

Saltbush.Yes best left to the rider or more importantly the engineers but if an innovation provides a clear advantage over others it may be banned aka the Renault F1 front suspension mass dampers which helped keep the front tyres on the ground over bumps or ripple strips. After that was banned Renault seemed to loose it's way. Another ground breaking innovation that was banned was the motor than created negative pressure under the Hall designed Chaparral CanAm sports car that created the first ground effects race car. The more regulators try to lower performance levels the more successful engineers become in maintaining or exceeding that level.

I was talking about the gyroscopic effect, not a gyroscope.
If you take a wheel out of a bycicle, spin it and hold the axle in both hands with stretched arms you will feel it,
The wheel wants to stay in it's own plane of movement and is difficult to pust 'off its course'.
Same happens in a fast moving bike, Doohan described it very well: 'At full speed the bike just wants to go straight on, you have to muscle it around the track'. You don't steer a motorcycle by conciously turning the handelbars (allthough it looks like that at low speed) but by repositioning your bodyweight. Putting pressure on the footpegs is also a means of doing that at high speed.

Al is much more knowledged on this

CA, I've been meaning to reply to your question but between work and being flooded my hands are full. Firstly let me seperate C-G and the gyro effect. generally speaking the C-G is about where the riders knee's are, obviuosly this measurement must include the rider, (bikes dont ride themselves and the riders weight is super significant here). This can be slightly altered by engine position and suspension settings, When riding you want a central or just below central and just a bit foward C-G, A low C-G make a bike hard to lean at nearer the end of the lean angel, A high C-G make it hard to lean from the upright position, so we look for the "perfect balance"
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