MOTOGP » Rossi red hot at Sepang

Saltbush..The engines of these machines(another rotating mass)could have neutral gyro effect as the flywheel/clutch assy is offset from the crankshaft end which means it has to rotate in the opposite direction to the crank(basically your idea). This may also help with engine harmonics and power robbing vibrations. Would this counter rotation be at 1 to 1 or a slower rotation? I am sure your idea could work but it would have to fix a problem which someone would need to fully understand. As with any sort of fix there would be problems associated with it such as additional unsprung weight in this case or in a worse case no front steer with weight transfer. Don't take out the patent yet?

I think we are getting in a tangle here,
Unsprung weigth is antything that followes the contour of the road and is not fixed to the chassis.
So (in case of the front) wheel, brake discs and pads, fender and inner tube of the upside down telescopic fork.
You want to keep this mass as light as possible because it has to accellerate and decellerate all the time to follow the road.
So a lighter wheel is preferable.

Isn't the influence of a counter rotating mass in the engine (for instance a cranckshaft) relative to that of the wheels because the revs of the engine vary at different throttle positions?

I think Morgue just hit the nail on the head with the comment

"We are getting in a tangle here"...

That's why I originally suggested doing some googling (or read a few books), or better still ride a bike for 20-30 years and try experimenting with what happens when you lean off more/less, move forward/backward, alter rake/trail, change ride heights, try different tyre constructions, fit a lighter set of wheels, try a shaft drive system.......

There are a hugh number of variables that interact in the dynamics of a motorcycle...

at the end of the day, riding a bike is about enjoying the experience safely (that goes for racing too)

When I say "Heavy" I mean heavy'er than the lightest possible, CF. There is no weight issue with a gp bike, they build them lighter than the regs allow then add weights, distributed to balance the bike accordingly.
So GP bikes dont need the lite'est wheels because they are already lite. So given the bikes are as light as possible there is no need to sacrifice stabillity for less weight, so the gyro effect of a forged magnesium wheel (a front forged Magnesium wheel is about a kilo heavier than a CF wheel) is slightly greater than that of a CF wheel (that has durabillity issues anyway) GP bike are by design agile, the less gyro effect of a front wheel the less stable the front will be.
Cont.

If there was no weight over the front axel the bike will mono freely reducing drive.
Often when you see a front wheel slide its the gyro effect that saves the day.
So its all about balancing the the given weight and making it work for you,
Saltbush: First, Thanks for the PI report. Tuning a bike suspension is complicated enough without altering wheel weights, to alter a wheels gross weight is to alter the whole suspension setup. (Im not talking about wheel balancing but the gross weight of the wheel).
Most teams use forged magnesium wheels, There is a reg the teams must comply with.

Saltbrush. What is wrong with my posts? Bad post saltbrush x3 (I've got my fingers crossed, so no returns!)

Anyway, the plastic elastic overriders usually sort any tuck over gyrro but the better rider can overcome this hence Rossi has lovely hair and Stoner has to use gel. Therefore Rossi is better and Stoner works for St, St, studioline.

OK Ace, no prob, I didn't actually think you meant that they used deliberately heavy wheels...

"Most teams use forged magnesium wheels, There is a reg the teams must comply with."

I also thought there was a reg about not being able to use CF wheels (related to failures in CF wheels from years gone by)... although going to the FIM site and checking I couldn't find it, most, if not all teams use forged mag alloy for wheels, greater strength with less weight than cast mag alloy (which is a bit old fashioned now, but was the dogs bolox in the 80s).

The ***** for us riders is CF wheels are SOOOO expensive. Alloys are so old it makes me cry, Surely they can make durable lite weight wheels?????

Freddie Spencer broke a Carbon fiber wheel at the introduction of the NSR500 at Kyalami 1984,
that started the discussion... They were bolted (or rather riveted), a bit like the 'comstar' wheels they used on their roadbikes for a while.

Having raced Speedway for 20 years many,many years ago when we changed to an alloy front rim and hub from steels the alloy was 6ounces lighter the difference in the traditional first corner fick was enormous especially on the long straight tracks,it was like riding the wind and so much easier on the shoulders and wrists also the response to body weight position during cornering was far more responsive,my times did improve on the tight tracks but the gyro effect was more noticible on the long straight fast tracks 1st corner also back then the engine was vertical,so if6 ounces could make that much difference to the handling on a Speedway Solo,6ounces on a GP bike would criticial
Esso Jawa