Crash.Net User: TalentFan

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TalentFan

June 17, 2014 3:56 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


Oh dear. Always with the never ending bickering about riders. The my dad could beat up your dad kiddie crud. No wonder my opinions are unpopular... Seems so many aren't far enough out of kindergarten. It is the bikes, technology and electronics, and the amount of data crunching resources you have access to that creates 'wins' in the MotoGP era far more than riders. History suggests Stoners unique talent bucked that trend at Ducati. The decline in his win ratio also proved the relentless march of technology will always trump even exceptional natural human ability. It's now probably 90% about the technical package the rider sits on, & maybe 10% the pilot when it comes to race pace. The riders don't do the setup, launch, throttle control, clutch control etc in today's MotoGP. The most influential human input is most likely the data engineers, not the rider in today's so-called MotoGP Racing. So which rider is the best is pretty much irrelevant, & bickering about it is irreleva

TalentFan

June 17, 2014 5:30 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


I know guys who take short cuts on my local MTB run so they can post a great time on Strava and look good. But the time is bogus and there is no achievement as the guy didn't do the full course. Cheating himself basically. My point is that all we do when we automate the premier class of motorcycle racing to such a level is create bogus race times and meaningless rider race wins and rider championships. Without winning against quality peers with the same opportunity, using your own skills unmodulated by electronic intervention, then the value in the enterprise is diminished. Unless you're just in it for false glory and a fat paycheque maybe?

TalentFan

June 17, 2014 5:06 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


Btw Ian33... I wasn't running down the rider when I say his talent is maybe only 10% influence on the race pace of a MotoGP bike/rider combo. I'm well aware that these are very brave and skilled world class pilots. What I'm saying is that a MotoGP motorcycle is now so advanced it is replacing those human skills with a digitalised and virtually infallible electronics system, so those rider skills are being replaced and marginalised so they have less and less impact upon how well the motorcycle laps through a race. I fail to see why a racer would not see and understand this. And be sorry that it is so.

TalentFan

June 17, 2014 4:58 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


............ As a racer yourself... Would you feel a competitor you raced against had an unfair advantage and was winning through tech rather than talent if he beat you? Just because I read and write does not mean I can't ride a motorbike pretty well and understand what a machine feels like on a racetrack y'know. You've just assumed I can't ride anything more than an armchair.

TalentFan

June 17, 2014 4:57 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


Ok Ian33 As a 'racer' yourself ( doubtless you actually have to actually use the clutch and gears as well as control the throttle with your wrist and reflexes - unless you have a very new and very expensive race bike with TC?) Do you think that a MotoGP racer is doing all of the job with all the rider aids? Is it his skill that gets the bike off the line without too much wheelie or spin? Is it skill that allows them to back shift 3 gears without wheel lock or clutch feathering? Is it the riders deft touch that makes best use of grip v wear on the tyres? Is it all the MotoGP rider who taps in the perfect amount if throttle out of every turn to maximise drive and prevent a slide? A clubbie racer has to do all these things. A MotoGP star has onboard systems to do this for him, and the chap with the best sorted system does the best, yes? As a racer yourself... Would you feel a competitor you raced against had an unfair advantage and was winning through tech rather than talent

TalentFan

June 17, 2014 4:21 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


Nope. Have YOU? I'll answer for you. No - you haven't. So what is your point? I can look at what is freely available information on the technical aspects and abilities of teams and draw logical conclusions without having to actually ride the bike. Just like most journos and professionals connected to a sport would do in fact as very few of them ever get to ride one either. Don't worry. I'm used to people not liking what I post as what I write spoils the fantasy. Come up with a reasoned argument to suggest my post is wrong. I'll certainly respect that even if I don't agree with it.

TalentFan

June 17, 2014 6:12 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


Btw I'm not knocking the riders as such. But I feel it is valid to say that their achievements are undermined by the rider aids and the huge disparity that electronics gives the big budget mfr teams. Is that the modern era riders fault? No. They are victims here really and only a very select few get any chance of glory. The rest are consigned to bit part players despite buckets of talent. The mfrs are there to win and promote their brands not to be sporting. The ones responsible for managing the sport properly and who have failed GPs utterly are Dorna IMO. It is their poor husbandry that means most riders will never get to truly compete, and those that do get to win can have that win validity coloured by the fact they did it riding an OTT tech-ridden, skill replacing 2 wheeled electronic gadget. If Marquez's wins and titles are held to be far less worthy than (say) Lawsons by people like me old enough to remember them, then we need to look to Dorna as the catalyst for that IMO.

TalentFan

June 17, 2014 8:24 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


@ cfsteezy Of course I agree theres a lot of skill required, not to mention big spuds for a motogp rider. You mention things that they "still" have to manage. Yes of course, but riders used to have to do all those things before.... as well as all the tasks that the bike now does for them. Problem is, is that the things the bike and its software took over tend to be things that really seperated the very, very good from the great. Getting a bike off the line, and throttle control are key core skills. But now they simply arent necessary on a modern MotoGP bike. Engage launch control, and whack the gas on and let the TC sort out what to give the tyre really, really isn't the same challenge at all. I cant fly a jet, but I can fly in an airliner. That doesnt make me as skilled as a pilot. An airliner has autopilot... but if it went wrong the captain could land it, while I would crash it. Bad metaphor maybe, but I'm sure you get the point?

TalentFan

June 17, 2014 5:58 PM

MotoGP » Marquez: MotoGP titles matter more than records


Ian33 We are arguing over percentages. And maybe you're right and my 10% thing is taking the point too far. But down to brass tacks our standpoints aren't all that far apart. All sports have to know where to draw the line when it comes to technology, as once tech is displacing skill instead of allowing skill to be fully expressed it becomes a negative contribution to the exercise. Too much mfr influence and power has seem MotoGP pass the negative return point with tech a long time ago. Great for Honda & Yamaha, bad for everyone else IMO.


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