Crash.Net User: TalentFan

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TalentFan

June 26, 2014 1:08 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


For a poster who is told relentlessly that his opinions are wrong.... I see several posts containing elements and points I have made, which have been accepted without backlash. All I can add is this... If the performance level continues unchecked, then either circuits become unsafe, or millions will need to be spent (again) which will make them worse venues for race goers and ruin the character of each circuit. Also if electronics and tech continue to be used to replace direct rider inputs... Then you have to accept that the Rider competition is no longer valid as the rider skill is not a large enough contribution to the total. That's simple logic and I fail to see how anyone can fail to accept that. IMO it's already really just a Constructor contest. The big problem Dorna has though is that they KNOW that it's the Riders that attract the most interest & attention & fans. Which is why they mis-sell MotoGP as all about the riders. When it reality it patently is not.

TalentFan

June 25, 2014 1:38 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


Brain: I dont care what method of induction you use, when you try to lay 250 hp to the ground on a strip of rubber the width of a band aid, its going to try and and break loose, then you will be searching for electronics to control wheel spin.
See? You look at fixing a problem from the wrong end? Does it need spelling out? A pure engineering solution is that you don't use a sledgehammer to crack a nut - you use just the right amount of force needed. So if 250hp cannot be managed by human reflexes alone.... THEN 250HP IS AN UNNECESSARY AND POINTLESS AMOUNT! If your thought process was followed to a logical conclusion then why not fully automate and remove the pilot altogether? They could certainly make an unencumbered machine ultimately faster.

TalentFan

June 25, 2014 2:22 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


@ Brain. You really aren't getting the fundamental differences are you? A war plane needs to win at all costs. I'm sure that's exactly how ThdMfr Teams see it too. But the purpose of Sport is a contest of skill for entrants. A contest where the only significant advantage a competitor should have should be their individual skill and effort. It should not be in the equipment used in the undertaking. The whole point and reason of war planes and racing motorcycles are completely different. It's blindingly obvious. Unless you're simple.

TalentFan

June 25, 2014 3:04 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


Brain: The whole point and reason of war planes and racing motorcycles are completely different. Uh no, the whole point for either is to win. Period.
So it seems. But that is not Sport. Failing to understand and maintain what Sport means is why Sport is being eliminated and replaced by something meaningless except as a show for dummies. If something is not REAL then it is fake. And while a fake may look like the real thing, it only ever has a fraction of the real things value. Just like a Hong Kong Rolex watch - in Sport only the real thing is actually valuable. You're just too wrapped up in your gung-ho fastest is best mentality to have any appreciation of quality. And quality of competition is what makes something a Rolex and not a knock-off fake. You just lack the intelligence to appreciate the difference by the look of it.

TalentFan

June 25, 2014 3:15 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


The stupid pursuit of excess now means that the bikes are too fast for even international iconic circuits like Mugello. So like it or not, they are going to HAVE to slow down the bikes. They can do it the easy way and save teams actor time and also dramatically increase the quality of the racing. Or to pander to the Factories they can complicate the carp out of it to achieve the objective of making the performance fit the environment (circuit safety constraints). If you had any sense you'd want a dramatic tech cull that achieves the objective the easy way that also demands all rider skill and makes much better racing. But if you are galatically stupid, you'll happily sit back while the MSMA come up with some ludicrously complex rules set that maintains it like now where the biggest resources and budgets get to control the lot. Change and slower bikes are coming. So that'll mean you quitting as a MotoGP supporter when that happens then Brain & Garcia?

TalentFan

June 25, 2014 2:55 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


@ Brain. There are always limits. And the proper limit for technology in a given Sport is the limit at which competitors can fully employ and exploit that technology to enhance the performance using their own skills. Once the technology exceeds human limits and starts to replace their inputs then it has to diminish the sport and be a negative move. The clever bit is maintaining the right balance as in everything. MGP has gone way past the limits with the tech. @ Garcia. It depends on how you look at it. To me the absolute best thing Grand Prix could be is an environment where the very best of the best riders compete on the worlds best circuits on pure racing machines that demand the ultimate skill and application of their skills so that the best competitor becomes a very worthy Premier Class WC. You CAN have the best series by it being the toughest competition and the most difficult bikes to master on the best tracks by the cream of riding talent. The only reason people think t

TalentFan

June 25, 2014 1:31 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


So 'Brain' and others.... I think Guy Coulon is terrific. And I can certainly respect his opinion. But yes, he does have to consider which side his bread is buttered before he opens his mouth. He is a very smart man - far too smart to put his foot on his mouth and bite the hand that feeds. Also of course points made are valid - no one had gone to absolute extreme of saying the bikes require NO rider skill and heaps of bravery. But... Apart from the obvious that Factory's introduced electronic aids as they bypass the natural human processing and reflex constraints to gain advantage, there is the proof that they provide advantage anyway.... Simply because they would not be employed if they did not. Plain logic. You ought to try using some.

TalentFan

June 25, 2014 1:24 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


.......... Basically the real reason for rider aids is unfair advantage. Before you accept tripe that they don't have significant impact.... Ask yourself why Factories spent a fortune on electronics if they don't provide advantage? Sometimes I feel I live in a world where Stupid is a pandemic. The electronics are WHY the bikes can be built to maximise performance without the need for the engineers to concern themselves with usability - because thy know they can use the electronics to retain control! It's an overcomplicated way to push the limits by bypassing rider skls and the feedback info they need to use skill. Mfrs don't want simpler better and much cheaper things like building bikes that have to factor in rider needs and human limitations - simply as it reduces their advantage.

TalentFan

June 25, 2014 1:19 PM

MotoGP » Guy Coulon (Tech 3) - Q&A


Ok then. gaps between the front runners is smaller with the electronics. It's a logical conclusion. The rider aids minimise and also correct small errors so less time can be lost - the potential of the package is maximised. But... It's creating the illusion of greater competition while in actuality removing competition. Even among the front 4. With no rider aids the gaps may be bigger but the relative rider performances would be more REAL. Also the potential for error when pushing means far greater opportunity for the other competing rider who didn't overdo it or make a mistake. They used to call such a scenario Racing - you may have heard of it. The bikes and tyres now are set up (as CE inferred) to maximise ultimate performance but without needing to worry about manageability and feel for the pilot. Because they use electronics to cut in when the brave pilot puts faith on the systems and pins it when he cannot get the feedback he would find essential to determine what action to take.


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