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TalentFan

May 21, 2013 9:18 AM

MOTOGP » Le Mans: Crutchlow - Coughing blood to podium champagne


@ Jerginz. Granted the guys showing the most promise and talent in lower classes will get the factory seats more often than not. However.... You have to factor in the politics and backing that some riders have that helps their cause and leapfrogs them over other worthy candidates. There's not enough seats for all potentially worthy riders, so you need backing to get the ride. There are Satellite guys over the years who have done well enough to deserve a shot but have been overlooked in favour of a guy with no MotoGP experience but better backing - happens all the time. We cannot say unequivocally that NO satellite guys could be capable of performing at the very top level with full factory team benefits, as more often than not the politics see to it that they never get the chance. Stoner from LCR to Ducati is the exception that proves the rule (and then only cos Ducati weren't seen as a competitive factory plum ride by better backed pilots).

TalentFan

May 20, 2013 10:51 PM

MOTOGP » Le Mans: Dovizioso 'so happy' after strong race


As my final effort I will say this... Folks were determined toake this a Dovi v Rossi thing, determined to defend Rossi as the goal. I resisted, but that's all some want. Bear this I'm mind - let's say Rossi stats say he did as well or even a bit better on paper. But VR fans have spent forever saying Rossi is the best while saying Dovi is a journeyman undeserving of a factory ride. On this basis and on the basis of expectation - which of the two underperformed and which (so far) has performed above expectation? You know the answer is Rossi and Dovi in that order.

TalentFan

May 20, 2013 10:34 PM

MOTOGP » Le Mans: Crutchlow - Coughing blood to podium champagne


@ jerginz. Note I said factory resources not just the bike. You cannot say a satellite team has the same amount of data, technicians, spare and new parts, electronics, in fact everything. No2 riders other perhaps than at HRC rarely get equal kit to the team leader while satellite guys get the stuff left over. To say satellite teams can be just as competitive is simply not the case. If it were then HRC & Yam are wasting vast sums of money for no good reason.

TalentFan

May 20, 2013 6:22 PM

MOTOGP » French MotoGP, Le Mans - Race Results


@ Codger I have no issue with what you say at all, and agree with your stance about knocking riders. However, given the vitriol that so many Rossi fans (the ones who've managed to taint all Rossi fans in some fans eyes with their antics and rudeness) spouted to ANY and ALL of VR's competitors - I'm guessing that a lot of posters feel that the payback is well-deserved, and they know that slating Rossi is the most effective way to give back what is dished out when the Rossi good times roll. Its not fair and its not good. But to many and on the childish level 'the Rossi fans started it'. I don't slag Rossi myself, but I can understand why its happening.

TalentFan

May 20, 2013 6:11 PM

MOTOGP » Le Mans: Crutchlow - Coughing blood to podium champagne


@ jerginz You may (MAY) have a valid point. I would say though that its impossible to state its the case. The pool of riders who've got the chance to move from a satellite to full factory is very small, while the chances of failing to make the grade are much, much more likely than the likelihood of succeeding. Why? Experienced fast guys used to the kit and the data, the teams etc. etc. as well as being fast-tracked due to being damn good mean that ANY Satellite guy moving up is a No2 status rider and on the back foot from the get go, while the straight-to-factory guys are fully settled in and supported from day 1 and have the budgets and support. So your statement is no more than a guess really. For all we know Alex Espagaro might just be the best rider in MotoGp right now, let alone CC - IF given the opportunity on equal kit to learn and compete.

TalentFan

May 20, 2013 5:52 PM

MOTOGP » Le Mans: Dovizioso 'so happy' after strong race


@ jambop I take your point about VR moving forward - but also you have to concede that moving forward from a poor quali is just as likely as it is that you'll move backwards from a great quali! In this instance, then overall finishing position will be a relevant indicator (despite the fact that competitive factors change year-on-year - e.g. Spies had a 'mare 2012 which took one full factory top-4 bike out of the running for virtually the whole season - its a freak and unlikely to be repeated. This of course benefitted loads of riders, notably Dovi of course with all those podiums). Over a season and as an average it'll be an interesting stat to compare VR's quali and race finish positions with Dovi's. This still won't be definitive & show how COMPETITIVE each finish was (as I've explained) but as its over a season its probably a fair yardstick.

TalentFan

May 20, 2013 2:47 PM

MOTOGP » Le Mans: Crutchlow - Coughing blood to podium champagne


@ see ya. Lets not forget that MotoGP still has 4 Japanese factory bikes with much , MUCH greater resources and data than anyone else. Even if we disregard the Ducatis' as well as the other satellite bikes to race against, that suggests that 5th is the best Cal ought to be able to get (on paper) in the dry. Yes you can say cal's bike is very good - but he doesn't have full factory support and resources to use. This means that to get 4th or better needs a problem or DNF for those with better resources, or for those woth better resources to not perform anything like as well as CC for Cal to get on the box. This happened yesterday and he took his chance. Due to the way things are, it'll take something similar to happen again for Cal to have the chance to podium again - even if he's riding slightly better than VR, JL, DP & MM at the time. Trying to say if he doesn't podium consistently CC would be failing is simplistic nonsense. You have to have perspective and judge how he's doing

TalentFan

May 20, 2013 2:27 PM

MOTOGP » Le Mans: Dovizioso 'so happy' after strong race


@ jambop. tell you what - lets turn this on its head, and imagine instead that it was VR riding the Ducati, with the same performance and the same result. Now - what do you think the comments from the VR faithful would be? I'll tell you. It'd be all about how the bike held him back, and that if he'd had been on a Yamaha he'd have smoked the field, and that only his amazing talent got that heap as high as 4th. All praise Vale! Instead it was Dovi, and so he won't get accorded the same treatment. Meanwhile VR did have his Yamaha, and was being beaten fair and square by Dovi on 1 Duke, and pressured hard by Hayden on the other and then crashed. Anyone can crash so I'm not bashing Rossi - but why can't you credit Dovi when he deserves it?

TalentFan

May 20, 2013 2:08 PM

MOTOGP » Le Mans: Dovizioso 'so happy' after strong race


@ jambop. The thing is, when talking about Dovi's Le Mans performance throughout the weekend there are no ifs buts or maybe's. He got a well-fought 4th in a race where the competition was strong. Not once have I mentioned or compared this to VR's rides on the Ducati at Le Mans (though others have made good points). My posts were purely about Dovi, in a Dovi thread. I have commented on VR elsewhere where it is more relevant. It is however inescapable that Dovi managed to qualify the Duke better than VR ever did, and also was heading Rossi while scrapping with Dani before VR crashed, and brought it home well ahead of VR yesterday as well. Dovi did well, thats it.


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