Crash.Net User: physics

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physics

March 20, 2014 6:16 PM

F1 » Teams were aware of sensor issue


@rob01 There is not a better or worse method to determine fuel flow. There is a correct and incorrect one. If they prove that the sensor gives false reading and their method is giving the right readings and that they haven't breached the rules they are cleared for their second place. It is easy to measure how much the deviation of a sensor is, there are special certified labs that do that kind of work for every type of sensor which are not connected to FIA and any of the manufactures. Also it may have occurred to You that if RedBull had a faulty sensors, other teams may had one too, which instead of showing a bigger fuel flow be deviating on the other side, thus giving some teams an advantage...

physics

March 20, 2014 7:01 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


@richard At fp they saw differences in the fuel flow sensor readings, so they got a new one from FIA, after quali (I think) they had problems with the new one, so FIA told them to run the first one with some offset to compensate for the error. That's what they ran the race with. RedBull DID NOT use their own sensor, both of the sensors were from FIA.

physics

March 20, 2014 8:05 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


Yes drivers can adjust maps, if you watch the race you can hear on team radio the orders to Kev (I think) to switch from yellow g6 to g4 or something like that. On the side of RedBull, they may have been told that they exceed the flow according to FIA's sensor, and the marshals probably ADVISED not ordered, since they don't have the power to do that, RedBull to switch to a more conservative map. RedBull knowing about the faulty sensor, chose to trust their own way of measuring probably expecting the penalty and probably ready to defend their decision in front of FIA, which they are now doing. So all the bull**it that people write here, without any actual thinking exercise is just finding a problem where one is not to be found...

physics

March 20, 2014 5:58 PM
Last Edited 132 days ago

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


@BobaFett So both cars run the same sensor, was that the reason Vettel retired, so he can give the sensor to DR? The sensor was replaced two times during the weekend because it was faulty. Both sensors were provided by FIA, the sensor that was in the car during the race, was the first one used in the weekend, deemed faulty and then by advice from FIA ran with an offset to compensate for the deviation. Lets see what the verdict of FIA will be. Also do You change the light bulb in your bathroom after the one in the living room goes, that answers Your point for vettel's sensor not being changed...

physics

March 20, 2014 6:01 PM

F1 » Teams were aware of sensor issue


rob01: i agree that the sensor is a problem. it was decided before the race as to how it would be handled. that is where red bull will lose the debate.
We will see what the verdict from FIA will be. My personal opinion is, that if RedBull manages to prove not exceeding fuel flow regulations, they should get their podium back.

physics

March 20, 2014 7:36 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


richard: physics. now I get it! I went back and read the ruling again. now see that rbr left in the old sensor, which had been proven to be defective on Saturday, and instead were relying on their own readings that were taken from the injectors, which were able to provide a far more accurate flow rate. so it would look as if rbr have an even stronger case, provided that they can prove that their monitoring was more accurate. fias insistence of accepting that a known defective sensor was in fact accurate, is utter madness.
Well, yeah, I guess their method of measuring fuel flow is by using injector duty cycle, and probably fuel temp for density correction and fuel pressure for flow velocity with the known size of the fuel lines.

physics

March 20, 2014 7:33 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


@Mark Well making a physical limiter for fuel flow isn't so easy... There are a couple of problems, while weight of the fuel does not change with temperature, the density hence the volume does. MassFlow=Velocity X Surface area X Density, so a simple restriction of the size of the fuel line does not work. Even if you manege to set a constant speed, the density will change throughout the race. I am not sure how the fuel flow measurement works on the F1 cars but I reckon there is at least a MAF sensor or some other velocity sensor (which are lots in types) and a temperature sensor for density correction.


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