Crash.Net User: physics

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physics

March 20, 2014 7:01 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


@richard At fp they saw differences in the fuel flow sensor readings, so they got a new one from FIA, after quali (I think) they had problems with the new one, so FIA told them to run the first one with some offset to compensate for the error. That's what they ran the race with. RedBull DID NOT use their own sensor, both of the sensors were from FIA.

physics

March 20, 2014 8:56 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


turbo compounding is the idea of combining the turbo and and electrical generator to increase efficiency of an ICE, which is used from some time ago in heavy machinery albeit with another turbo just spinning the generator (google is your friend). Or you just like being ignorant? And no this is my only alias, don't know the proffesor. @Mark Actually mass flow rate is the best way to limit power, if it was based on volume, it will be very inconsistent, because volume changes with density, which in term changes with temperature. Williams used to super cool their tanks long time ago, MotoGP bikes still do it I think. Mass stays the same regardless. Actually the 100kg per race and 100kg/h is pretty smart and when they get their measuring right will give an equal playing field for all PUs.

physics

March 20, 2014 8:42 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


Why are they arrogant, because the won several championships in a row? Would your opinion be different if it was another team in the same situation. This DQ doesn't matter that much, what matters is that if all the flow sensors for all the team have some deviation (it won't be the same for every sensor) this gives a car an advantage over others. See it this way, if we have too equal cars, lets say both Mercedes, they both run with real 100kg/h fuel flow. Now in one of the cars the sensors registers a 10% higher fuel flow, that means, for the car to not be DQed, they should run at 90kg/h max, which if we are rather optimistic of the efficiency of the engine (this type of turbo-compounding is said to give 50% thermal efficiency), and we follow the rumors that the Mercedes's PU produce 900 hp, with 10% less fuel means 5% less power, going to 855 hp. Now the other car has a 10% fuel flow error giving it 945 hp with a total of 90hp difference between the too cars.

physics

March 20, 2014 9:02 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


from stewards decision "b. The Technical Directive goes on to state: “If at any time WE consider that the sensor has an issue which has not been detected by the system WE will communicate this to the team concerned and switch to a backup system” (emphasis added.) c. The backup system is the calculated fuel flow model with a correction factor decided by the FIA." they never did actually tell RedBull to use the back up system

physics

March 20, 2014 8:05 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


Yes drivers can adjust maps, if you watch the race you can hear on team radio the orders to Kev (I think) to switch from yellow g6 to g4 or something like that. On the side of RedBull, they may have been told that they exceed the flow according to FIA's sensor, and the marshals probably ADVISED not ordered, since they don't have the power to do that, RedBull to switch to a more conservative map. RedBull knowing about the faulty sensor, chose to trust their own way of measuring probably expecting the penalty and probably ready to defend their decision in front of FIA, which they are now doing. So all the bull**it that people write here, without any actual thinking exercise is just finding a problem where one is not to be found...

physics

March 20, 2014 7:36 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


richard: physics. now I get it! I went back and read the ruling again. now see that rbr left in the old sensor, which had been proven to be defective on Saturday, and instead were relying on their own readings that were taken from the injectors, which were able to provide a far more accurate flow rate. so it would look as if rbr have an even stronger case, provided that they can prove that their monitoring was more accurate. fias insistence of accepting that a known defective sensor was in fact accurate, is utter madness.
Well, yeah, I guess their method of measuring fuel flow is by using injector duty cycle, and probably fuel temp for density correction and fuel pressure for flow velocity with the known size of the fuel lines.

physics

March 20, 2014 7:33 PM

F1 » Red Bull to appeal Ricciardo exclusion


@Mark Well making a physical limiter for fuel flow isn't so easy... There are a couple of problems, while weight of the fuel does not change with temperature, the density hence the volume does. MassFlow=Velocity X Surface area X Density, so a simple restriction of the size of the fuel line does not work. Even if you manege to set a constant speed, the density will change throughout the race. I am not sure how the fuel flow measurement works on the F1 cars but I reckon there is at least a MAF sensor or some other velocity sensor (which are lots in types) and a temperature sensor for density correction.


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