WSBK » 1200cc weight change, WSBK winter test ban


World Superbike announces rule amendments

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shamarone

October 28, 2011 11:04 PM

re: "But I still believe keep the weight same and reduce twins cc limit to 1100cc"

that would work if this were grandprix. but unfortunately that capacity doesn't take into account the manufacturer's fundamental business need of direct selling these motorcycles (mighty task this). good or bad, all's grandprix really has to worry about selling is the "cult of personalities" and the associated hats and t-shirts. one's tangible, the other...? INTANGIBLE. forgetting racing for a sec and taking into account things like production costs, meeting emissions, street and magazine tests, consumer tendency to devalue, etc. a v-twin needs the extra 200cc's to be competitive AND have a competitive MSRP. grandprix doesn't give a lick about any of this so the cost effective way to adjust is in fact weight. the laws of physics supports this approach.

Percentage

October 29, 2011 2:24 AM
Last Edited 1035 days ago

It is not my thesis, it is the maths that the FIM and WSBK use to equate capacity and cylinders, it is equalizing the available valve area to capacity ratio.

The same is done with the 600 fours and 675 triples.

Yes, Ducati can go and bore it out, however that effects (detrimentally) compression ratios, combustion chamber shape and size, piston squish area, piston mass. ....and that thesis comes from Phil Irving (of bike and F1 fame).

It is the reason why Ducati is going down a technological dead end. The normal route is to just increase the number of pistons. eg. F1 went 8 to 10/12 to 10 in the 3.0L and 3.5L eras. It is basic physics and engineering.

Percentage

October 29, 2011 8:30 AM

As for the discussion about top speed and mass.

Why isn't Dani Pedrosa, 50kgs NOT the fastest rider at all GPs? Simoncelli, Edwards and Spies are 20 kgs heavier, but are they so much more slower? No.

geoff - Unregistered

October 29, 2011 7:48 PM

Quote Jon 'It's not the v-twin formula that gives an advantage or else we'd have seen KTM fielding a team 2 years ago!'

As I understand it the difference is the Ducati can run its big cylinder's whopping valves at high revs due to the desmo system (mechanically opens and closes valves rather than relying on a spring to close them) A traditional spring system can't handle the high revs required. KTM spent a kings ransom to get their bike competitive in Germanys IDM which is effectively pumped up STK bikes. Until they or someone else can come up with an alternative to desmo the Duke will still be the best twin and the bike to beat overall.

bloke - Unregistered

October 29, 2011 10:09 PM

Why don't Ducati just make a few more road going 990 Desmodici's, get them homologated and then kick everyones @rse, hell they'd be giving away 10cc...

Stavros - Unregistered

October 30, 2011 12:33 AM

"Why isn't Dani Pedrosa, 50kgs NOT the fastest rider at all GPs? Simoncelli, Edwards and Spies are 20 kgs heavier, but are they so much more slower? No."

Percentage.. Pedrosa is ALWAYS the fastest on the straight and the fastest off the line, which is a function of his weight and reduced drag (being able to sit comfortably behind the speed bubble). Sepang was a case in point. Dani was making up .4 of a second on the late Marco Simoncelli on the two straights.


What WSBK needs to introducs is a handicap system for all bikes, not just Ducatis. Ducati had a good year this year so they are penalised with weight next year in a fairly arbitrary way, where Biaggi romped home on the V4 Aprilia in 2010 but recived no penalties lst year. But it needs to be calculated and adjusted over the course of the season, like they do in British Touring Cars. It keeps the racing close and its completely transparent and logical.

wsbk_is_the_real - Unregistered

October 30, 2011 1:02 AM

@Stavros, ur opinions r just dirty cakes in the drain. Biaggi's Aprilia got penalties. Its gear-driven camshafts were banned 2011 onwards.

@percentage, if u become 30 kgs u cant b best rider in the world coz u wont hv d strength. Drivers weight and Bikes weight r different issues.

This is quite welcome move and I appreciate Infront Motorsports r having so keen analysis to bring the races closer n remove unfair advantages from particular constructors and also saving it from becoming a Ducati Cup.

Percentage

October 30, 2011 7:52 AM

@stavros.
You've jumped ship on your argument.
I said that mass makes little difference and that it is power and aerodynamics. Now you have jumped the argument ship to aerodynamics.

I mentioned MotoGP as the official website has excellent results for comparison. Sadly, Dani.P is not always the fastest.

You can submit your alternate reality at will. :)

rca - Unregistered

October 30, 2011 9:16 AM

during 2010 the weights came down in increments of three kg.on what basis has it gone up by six? surely not on the last round performance of guintoli.this seems like a neejerk reaction.next season opens up on tracks where carlos could do well but any potential for a good start to his season after 6 races will probably be eliminated in just 2 races at monza.surely a three kg increase to start and then reveiw.also to the idiot who posted that weight penalty is easily overcome perhaps someone could explain how!

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